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BP_Lover
Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Posts: 161
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 Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:45 pm Post subject: Help? - Need help with the difference in variants of boas |
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Could anyone tell me the difference between those variants of boas??
like size and other stuffs
Suriname
Hog Island
Salmon
Argentine
Colombian
Guyanan
Brazilian
Rainbow 
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Brembo
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:04 am Post subject: Re: Help? |
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| BP_Lover wrote: | Could anyone tell me the difference between those variants of boas??
like size and other stuffs
Suriname
Hog Island
Salmon
Argentine
Colombian
Guyanan
Brazilian
Rainbow |
I'm not an expert, but I can give ya what I know;
Suriname, Colombian, Guyanan, Brazilian... These are all similar (I know the first three are the same snake except for minor differences in coloration (hues, not actual color) and temperment) and hard to tell the differences unless you see them together or know what to look for.
The Colombian is Boa Constrictor Constrictor, the basis by which all the others are compared. Its is the most docile of the species and can grow quite large and can live pretty long. I know of 15' specimens living for 20 years. On average, they are about 10'-12' and 15 years. This is my favorite of the boas. They also grow the slowest out of the breeds.
Guyanan and Suriname are darker in the greys and browns, sorta a muddled coloration. They are more tempermental and babies might bite or nip at you - mostly out of self defense. They grow large and are hardy snakes. I know of one Suriname that is 7 years old and 9'. She is so hardy that when they lost power while on vacation last winter, they came home to an understandably upset boa. The neighbor who was watching her was frightened off by her "vocalization" of her displeasure (Hey, its what he said, lol). They thought she was going to be dead when they heard she had been without heat for 3 and half days and it was 25-30 degrees in the basement. They got home to find her hissing until warmed up and then the fed her the next day and she's happy once again. A gaming friend of mine bought a Guyanan recently, I'll get ya a pic if I can. Looks like mine but again the grey is more charcoal and the cream is more brown.
The only other thing I know about boas is that the color shift tells you the expected size and age of your boa. Mine was born on April 14th and roughly 2 weeks ago its scales shifted to a brownish cream and the tans went more towards brown and the the grey more brown, etc... The face got darker too. This is not good news. Alas it indicates that the snake will probably top out at about 6'-7' and probably 8 years. When a boa gains its maturity coloration, that time frame from their birth sorta lends you the time frame for max growth and age. Its not scientiffic, but its pretty regular. But hey, its just a good thing to have it in the family. I don't need big. For that I will get a Burmese, albino probably.
have fun with whatever boa you decide on. I suggest BCC, the Colombian variety. My former boss had one that lived for 17 years and grew to 11'.
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:29 am Post subject: |
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With all due respect, there is something to be said for researching things BEFORE coming to a forum to ask questions. I'm more than willing to help out, but posting 8 different snakes and asking what the differences are is a bit ridiculous.
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:37 am Post subject: |
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I don't fully agree with the information posted, but to add much commentary would take every bit as long as answering the initial question.
I'll just say that the Colombian boa is BCI (Boa constrictor imperator), which averages a few feet smaller than BCC.
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BP_Lover
Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Posts: 161
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| hhmoore wrote: | | With all due respect, there is something to be said for researching things BEFORE coming to a forum to ask questions. I'm more than willing to help out, but posting 8 different snakes and asking what the differences are is a bit ridiculous. |
ok hhmoore don't mean to sound rude but hey im not a dictator so you don't have to answer and also if you just gave me info on 1 or 2 and like 4 people did that there would be info on all so you don't need to get pissy about chill out its just a question plus didn't your mom teach you if you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all so i will consider those last post deleted and you can try again later.
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| BP_Lover wrote: | | ok hhmoore don't mean to sound rude but hey im not a dictator so you don't have to answer and also if you just gave me info on 1 or 2 and like 4 people did that there would be info on all so you don't need to get pissy about chill out its just a question plus didn't your mom teach you if you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all so i will consider those last post deleted and you can try again later. |
For the record, I'm not pissy about this at all, nor did I say anything my mother wouldn't have approved of... not that there was any reason for you to bring her into this. Consider my last post deleted all you want - in the future, I'll remember to check the username on posts before I think about responding.
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BP_Lover
Joined: 18 Apr 2008
Posts: 161
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| hhmoore wrote: | | BP_Lover wrote: | | ok hhmoore don't mean to sound rude but hey im not a dictator so you don't have to answer and also if you just gave me info on 1 or 2 and like 4 people did that there would be info on all so you don't need to get pissy about chill out its just a question plus didn't your mom teach you if you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all so i will consider those last post deleted and you can try again later. |
For the record, I'm not pissy about this at all, nor did I say anything my mother wouldn't have approved of... not that there was any reason for you to bring her into this. Consider my last post deleted all you want - in the future, I'll remember to check the username on posts before I think about responding. |
all i was trying to say is no hard feeling and that you can post again without feeling dumb and no please don't turn this into a debate i just wanted info and by the way i wasn't bringing you're mom into this just stating that if you're not gonna post an answer you don't need to past it at all sorryyy...... 
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Brembo
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Harold, I think you're wrong.
The Boa Constrictor Imperator is from the northern area, but the common tag "Red Tailed Boa" belongs to the Colombian variety, known as BCC. This is what it says in a few places on the web, plus in Philippe Vosjoli's book he points out that the Colombian is the BCC and the species from Northern South American looks identical and is BCI due to its larger size.
But, I am not here to quibble man. We've gotten along and I am glad to find someone that understands the good old days.
I agree that its easier to research these things and find than to blitz a series of questions and ask for detailed info.
I still think the OP should get a colombian. He'd be happy and the thread would be over.
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Brembo wrote: | Harold, I think you're wrong.
The Boa Constrictor Imperator is from the northern area, but the common tag "Red Tailed Boa" belongs to the Colombian variety, known as BCC. This is what it says in a few places on the web, plus in Philippe Vosjoli's book he points out that the Colombian is the BCC and the species from Northern South American looks identical and is BCI due to its larger size.
But, I am not here to quibble man. We've gotten along and I am glad to find someone that understands the good old days. |
I have no problem discussing things with somebody that may have a differing opinion (even if they are so bold as to come out and say they think I am wrong, lol), and can do so without taking offense. (given my stance on this thread, however, my activity in it will be limited)
On the subject of Colombian boas and BCC vs BCI: The nominate race, Boa constrictor constrictor, consists of the "true redtails", and I'm quite confident that a simple google-search of the term Suriname (insert Peruvian, Guyana, Brazil) red tail boawill show that to be the case. While it is generally accepted that there are both BCC and BCI found in the country of Colombia (the existence of a true Colombian red tail boa is a topic of some debate, and I am certainly not qualified to resolve that...however,) the animal that is so widely known as the Colombian boa (aka the common boa) is classified as Boa constrictor imperator. *note, there are certainly those that disagree with this classification, but I'm not the one that put them in that group...and, unless the classification is changed at some point,that's what they are*
I was a bit vague with my previous size comment - obviously both BCC and BCI have extended ranges, and there are some locality differences for each group. Without getting into a serious breakdown of animals by locality subgrouping & sizes, the Colombian boa is probably the largest BCI...but some of the BCC are larger.
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Brembo
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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As I understand it, the only way to truly tell without genetic sampling is their size. I consulted with the pet shop today when I took mine in to be sexed (I am loathe to do it myself for fear of harming the snake). The visible differences between mine and the others are only in the hues at the early stage as far as I can tell.
In the book, Philippe says that the BCI is typically northern, but that its not limited to that area. Thinking about how many are harvested still, we never really know what we're getting unless we know the breeder and their stock (and I don't in this case).
They are all so similar it really doesn't matter, if ya know what I mean.
Today we sexed Slayer and found out that I was right - its a girl. She was so well behaved I got her a fat mouse and fed her when we got back home. She's now basking on the tree with a lump under the light.
I also handled a pair of Cook's the breeder has. I have to talk my wife into it, but she thinks the phantom strikes and nipping is funny. She understands they are babies and nippy out of defense mostly. I had a gorgeous one, yellow with a slight orange on the belly. It was a friend's and I handled it a lot. Never bit me after we had "our talk", but he would bite the owner often. Once on the nose. I am moving on about 4 months so I think we will get a set up then for a Cook's and raise it.
There's an albino male red tail the shop owner is willing to trade me for a pair of tasers. I've never worked out a deal for a taser, only for firearms. I think I can get them through my firearm vendors I normally do business with.
My wife got to hold a large ball today at the shop. A guy came in with two. One was an adoption and roughly 4', and the other one he bought and roughly about 2'. He had the same issues we're having and said he just kept feeding it pinkies until it finally began to eat on its own. He said it didn't eat for the first 4 months he had it and he was terrified it was going to die, but then it just suddenly grab the mouse he was dropping in to test feed it and no problems since. The large female (the adopted one) had eaten well, then stopped for about 2 months, then started again. He said everyone told him this is normal.
We dropped a mouse in, but our ball is napping and is ignoring it. One customer said his will let the mouse sit in there for hours then BAM!
Balls sure are funny.
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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Since BP_Lover nicely asked me not to turn this into a debate, I will let the posted information stand unless somebody else chooses to dispute it. I actually think its kind of funny that, unless one of us chooses to recant, BPs inquiry resulted in very conflicting responses...the only way to know which is accurate is to research. Gotta love the internet 
(Luckily, I chose not to say much, so verifying my statements should be pretty simple)
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deborahbroadus
Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 6746
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| hhmoore wrote: | Since BP_Lover nicely asked me not to turn this into a debate, I will let the posted information stand unless somebody else chooses to dispute it. I actually think its kind of funny that, unless one of us chooses to recant, BPs inquiry resulted in very conflicting responses...the only way to know which is accurate is to research. Gotta love the internet
(Luckily, I chose not to say much, so verifying my statements should be pretty simple) |
I agree!!! The Internet is a great place. Any fool can come on, get a few cuts and pastes, claim more experience than they actually have and sound like they know more than they actually know (any fool can sound like an expert )
Research is still the best way to educate oneself (asking questions on a forum is not "research;" Harald is right about that. In fact, I have rarely (never to this date) found him to be wrong. That's why I never waste time arguing with him (regardless of whatever I may perceive his "tone" to be)..I am better off simply asking him to point me to his resources (that way I don't come off sounding like a fool, it leads me to more information, and I get an opportunity to pick his brain). AND that way I have ammunition to shoot down any arguments that he may have.
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Brembo
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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"It is better to be silent and thought an idiot, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
One of my favs... My sig quote is my top pick, but its been banned so you'll have to live with this one.
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Brembo wrote: | | "It is better to be silent and thought an idiot, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt." |
Hmmmmmm...interesting comment. Since there have been all of 4 participants in this thread, I wonder which of us that is pointing at?
BP_Lover - probably not
Brembo - has had the most to say in this thread, so probably not
hhmoore - for opting out of the discussion, possibly
Deb - for stating that she doesn't waste time arguing with hhmoore, possibly.
So, it's probably me or Deb. If it's me, it sounds like a flat out challenge. If its Deb, I'm not sure what the implication is.
I also wonder if BP_Lover has invested even 5 minutes to verify any of the statements made in this thread. Clearly, somebody is incorrect....
I'll admit that my reason for not continuing this had nothing to do with BP's request that I not turn it into a debate...it was because I was (am) disinclined to post a bunch of information that responds to his initial post as a byproduct of confirming what I have said. That is why I minimized my commentary, while stating that I didn't agree with what had been posted. Petty? Yup. But as BP pointed out, I'm not required to respond and help, so this is my choice.
Another factor is that I don't necessarily look things up before responding (unless I am not sure of the accuracy of what I am about to post, then I do), so there may not be specific quotes or links. Further, especially in this case, a lot of what I would post as verification is from the websites of well respected breeders, so the links would be disallowed. Just for giggles, I pulled this from the boa page on MK's site (I'll probably be struck down for posting this, lol): | Quote: | | ...In fact, not all boa constrictors are red-tailed. While many boas on the market are true red-tailed Boa constrictor constrictor imported from Brazil, with a few coming from very limited areas in Columbia, the Amazon, Guyana, and Surinam, most are actually B. c. imperator from Columbia... |
http://www.anapsid.org/boa.html
Ahh - sweeeeeeeeeet - I just found one on a site that I would NEVER have used as a reference, BUT they had included a quote from Vin Russo, who is highly respected in the boa world:
| Quote: | "The Boas that we see imported by the thousands from Colombia are not True Red Tailed Boas as they are Boa c. imperator which is found West of the Andes Mountains. These Colombian boas are considered to be non red tailed (although they do possess a red tail). They are instead referred to as "Common Boas " or Colombian Boas.
"True 'Red Tailed' Boas are the nominant race, Boa c. constrictor. The True Red Tailed Boas are the boas found East of the Andes Mountains in South America (Surinam, Guyana, Brazil, Peru, etc. ). They get much larger than Colombian Boas and have very deep red tails." ...Vin Russo |
http://animal-world.com/encyclo/reptiles/snakes/columbianredtailboa.php
I could go on, but Vin Russo's statement confirms most, if not all of what I have said in this thread...and I would be hard pressed to find a better source. (I have a world of respect for Gus Rentfro, and would reference him in a heartbeat, but since links to breeders' sites are a no no....)
Brembo, would you mind explaining the method by which you extrapolated that your boa will "probably top out at about 6'-7' and probably 8 years"
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deborahbroadus
Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 6746
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Brembo wrote: | "It is better to be silent and thought an idiot, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
One of my favs... My sig quote is my top pick, but its been banned so you'll have to live with this one. |
I love that quote. 
Here's another that I love:
| Quote: | He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool; avoid him.
He who knows not and knows that he knows not is a student; teach him.
He who knows and knows not that he knows is asleep; wake him.
He who knows and knows that he knows is a wise man; follow him. |
Harald, since this quotation is actually pointing at those whom assume/think..(whichever word is most PC) that they know what they are talking about and they go on to spout forth words of assumed wisdom then apparently it's talking about people that talk too much about subjects of which they know little.
Therefore, I don't believe that it can't realistically be aimed at either of us and certainly not me, because I haven't expounded on the subject at all, and I readily admit that I am clueless about Boas (but I do know how to research and there are a few people that I could ask (including you) if I were so inclined to debate the topic).
Since the quotation can't logically be aimed at either of us, and certainly not ME  It's possible that the quotation was applied incorrectly (this happens sometimes). I am reminded of a lesson that I learned in life: Be careful who we point a finger at..there are still three more pointing at ourselves.
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