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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 504
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 Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject: First peek...and a surprise |
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For some reason, I found myself opening up a box of bullsnake eggs this morning (I say for some reason, because it's about 3 weeks earlier than mine usually hatch). 2 little heads poking out. By the time I got the camera ready, and found a good window (it was cold and rainy, so no outside pics), one was back inside...its eye to the slit, giving the impression it was peeking out.
A couple hours later, one was completely out, and 3 were pipping. One nose didn't look right to me, though - the color was off. Sure enough, when he pushed just a bit further out, I could see he had pink eyes. I love surprises like that  . So far, there are 3 whitesides, and one snow, with 2 eggs still intact.
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, I just realized I was wrong - that clutch was laid on 3/19, making this about an average incubation period (but still about 9 days sooner than my norm for bulls). Good thing my subconscious is keeping track of this stuff, or they would have already shed by the time I found them, lol
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PlayBall
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 602
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Can't wait for pics! 
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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ummm - no pics coming
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deborahbroadus
Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 6744
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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Harald, your announcement is very thrilling! Only one other thing is needed to make our joy complete:
WHERE ARE THE PICS?? 
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deborahbroadus
Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 6744
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| deborahbroadus wrote: | Harald, your announcement is very thrilling! Only one other thing is needed to make our joy complete:
WHERE ARE THE PICS?? |
*we all posted at approximately the same time!
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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lol - how do you like that one, Deb - they were 3 weeks early because I was thinking of a different clutch...And you tell people I'm smart 
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NickMyers03
Moderator
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 1904
Location: fredericksburg va
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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ok explain some of the genetics of the bulls for me...
recessive,dom, codom?
you were excited for the wite sided and got a surprize of a snow so were they hets and you didnt know or did you expect them?
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| NickMyers03 wrote: | ok explain some of the genetics of the bulls for me...
recessive,dom, codom?
you were excited for the wite sided and got a surprize of a snow so were they hets and you didnt know or did you expect them? |
Not so much excited for the whitesideds - I knew they were coming, and I've got a bunch of them floating around here, lol (and that doesn't even count the combinations, like snows and ghosts)...it was more that I was surprised to see them TODAY. I will admit that I love seeing the babies hatch, no matter what is coming out of the eggs.
Whiteside, albino, axanthic, hypo, and patternless are all recessive traits.
Yellow is a color variant - line bred to enhance/improve the trait.
Red - I'm not sure...I've been meaning to ask KJ. I've seen "hets" advertised, but that doesn't convince me of anything (I've seen het for spider BPs advertised, too, lol). I've also seen people selling "high red" bulls that don't even come close to the color of my juvies. If there is a recessive factor involved with reds, I suspect that there is a linebreeding component as well. I'll clarify when I hear back.
Oh - I was expecting a clutch of whiteside het albinos...I didn't know the male was/is het (this was a whitesided to albino whitesided pairing). When I first saw the snout of the snow, I was pretty sure what it was...but since I couldn't really see much past the nares, I couldn't be positive til he came out further.
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deborahbroadus
Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 6744
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| hhmoore wrote: | | lol - how do you like that one, Deb - they were 3 weeks early because I was thinking of a different clutch...And you tell people I'm smart |
Anyone can make a mistake. I make them alll the time! 
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| hhmoore wrote: | Red - I'm not sure...I've been meaning to ask KJ. I've seen "hets" advertised, but that doesn't convince me of anything (I've seen het for spider BPs advertised, too, lol). I've also seen people selling "high red" bulls that don't even come close to the color of my juvies. If there is a recessive factor involved with reds, I suspect that there is a linebreeding component as well. I'll clarify when I hear back.
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OK - I heard back from KJ, and my thoughts were correct. The reds are color variants which are selectively, and line, bred to refine/improve the look. Neither the Crumbly or Kingsville line is recessive in nature, and there is typically pretty poor color transfer when animals are outcrossed.
All that pretty much stands to reason, as even within very red lines, the amount of red displayed by offspring is highly variable.
One of my normal females has some faint reddish tones, and looks as red as some that are being proclaimed as RED. I might put her with my red male at some point, just to see how much color the babies have. (my reds are 07s - it took me awhile to find some I felt were worth spending money on...but I've got my name on a list for some this year .
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:25 am Post subject: |
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lol - me being me, I sent my inquiry to two different people that work with red bulls. KJ responded that neither line was recessive...that it is a color variant which is passed along (and improved) with selective breeding. Jim, on the other hand, responded that it is a recessive trait. Time for a couple more emails. Don, I am sure, will go with color variant/selective breeding (though I'll ask anyway). That leaves Jason - who doesn't answer my emails unless there is money involved, lol
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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ok - its 3 for color variant + selective/line breeding (not counting my vote)
and 1 for recessive trait.
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PyMama
Moderator
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1646
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Ok so not like completely worthless....but I wanna see pics! Visual learner !
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 504
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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lol - I've been waiting for somebody to use that emoticon...what took you so long.
sorry, but no pics here.
Oh, I got some clarification from Jim - he calls the product of outcrossed red breedings hets because they still have the color potential, so breeding them together, or back to a red, can produce red offspring. While it may not be technically correct, it is terminology that most understand.
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