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pdig69
Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Posts: 113
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 Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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I meant I don't care what everyone thinks of the way I handled that one BP, because she is now fine. And i'll say it again, I'm still not going to spend money on a ball python if he costs much less than the tests. I will try to treat him the best I can, and if he gets better, then all is well. If not, then I will send him to the animal hospital I deal with so he can get better there, under a professional's care. Obviously, if the signs are serious, and medical attention is needed then I will have the bp taken care of, but all cases are circumstantial depending on severity.
If you don't like, then don't read my posts, because they won't be for you Mikeandslick.
This started because one snake is ill, and I want another. None of you bothered to ask about how I quarantine them. You'd be ill-advised on your subject of BP's to think they would be close enough to have the problem spread.
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deborahbroadus
Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 6729
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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I personally am waiting for pics. If you can afford that many bps, of course you can afford a battery. Hop to it please (I am really interested in your set up and not in judging you.) 
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magana559
Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 1065
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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Dude If You Dont Care For Your Ball With Mouth Rot I Would Be Happy To Place It In My Care Send Me A Pm....Ill Pay For Shipping
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deborahbroadus
Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 6729
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| pdig69 wrote: | I meant I don't care what everyone thinks of the way I handled that one BP, because she is now fine. And i'll say it again, I'm still not going to spend money on a ball python if he costs much less than the tests. I will try to treat him the best I can, and if he gets better, then all is well. If not, then I will send him to the animal hospital I deal with so he can get better there, under a professional's care. Obviously, if the signs are serious, and medical attention is needed then I will have the bp taken care of, but all cases are circumstantial depending on severity.
If you don't like, then don't read my posts, because they won't be for you Mikeandslick.
This started because one snake is ill, and I want another. None of you bothered to ask about how I quarantine them. You'd be ill-advised on your subject of BP's to think they would be close enough to have the problem spread. |
Regarding money and cheap snakes. Dollarwise and pound for pound a breeder once told me that a female normal is worth her weight in gold. She can lay you countless eggs over the year that will more than pay for her vet care if you market her carefully and sell the eggs.
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GrayKat97
Joined: 14 Feb 2008
Posts: 56
Location: Western PA
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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pdig, Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be mean here. I would like to tell you a little story so that you know where I'm coming from. I had adopted a mixed breed dog, paid a whopping $15.00 for it at a flea market. Bought it's license (cost more than the dog), Paid for vet visits and shots (all of which cost more than the dog). The dog escaped from the house one day when I was at work, and got hit by a car, the neighbor called me at work, I took a vacation day, gathered my poor bleeding animal off the side of the road and took her to a vet where I proceeded to pay more than a $1000.00 to get her put back together. (I realize that I was lucky because I took her to a vet I had previously worked for and she was kind enough to let me make payments over a five month period.) The thing is that I love each and every animal I own that much. When I get any animal, I think of that as a commitment I am bound to over the life of that animal, they don't have a choice, so it's my responsibility to take the best care of them that I can. If I am unable to care for even one of my animals, there is no way in the world that I would even think of taking on the responsibility for another one. If I don't have the ability or willingness to care for even a "free" animal then I have no business adding animal(s) that cost to my collection.
As far as the IBD thing goes, it's my understanding that no-one is quite sure how it's passed, therefore if your animal did have it or you suspect that your animal might have it, even using proper quarantine procedures no more snakes should be brought in because of the deadliness of this disease.
I don't know of any vet who would knowingly adopt an animal who not only was sick, but sick with a contagious, incurable and deadly disease. I have the sneaking suspicion that your vet told you your snake was unlikely to have IBD, but offered you the tests to make sure, which you then refused because of the cost. (I freely admit that I very well could be wrong here, and that's why I said "suspicion")
pdig, you say you don't care what we think, but if you are planning on breeding snakes to sell, you should care. You should care very much, because we are your customers and your competition. Honestly coming at this from the customer standpoint, I'd buy from Ron, Deb, and Nick, but I would not even think of purchasing anything from you. Not because of the husbandry and quarantine stuff (you're inexperianced and you'll learn better) but because you don't care what I think, and you've come right out and said so.
I'll get off my little soapbox now, Sorry this was so long.
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PlayBall
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 600
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| pdig69 wrote: |
25 dollar bp doesn't consitute testing if i can replace her with another that is well. i can't easily replace a caramel albino though . |
Wow, no respect for life at all. 25 bucks, 300, 1000? whatever your pet cost you. I (and most people around here) will do/pay what I can to save my pet. If I couldn't afford the vet bill I wouldn't have got one (five now) to begin with.
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PlayBall
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 600
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| GrayKat97 wrote: | pdig, Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not trying to be mean here. I would like to tell you a little story so that you know where I'm coming from. I had adopted a mixed breed dog, paid a whopping $15.00 for it at a flea market. Bought it's license (cost more than the dog), Paid for vet visits and shots (all of which cost more than the dog). The dog escaped from the house one day when I was at work, and got hit by a car, the neighbor called me at work, I took a vacation day, gathered my poor bleeding animal off the side of the road and took her to a vet where I proceeded to pay more than a $1000.00 to get her put back together. (I realize that I was lucky because I took her to a vet I had previously worked for and she was kind enough to let me make payments over a five month period.) The thing is that I love each and every animal I own that much. When I get any animal, I think of that as a commitment I am bound to over the life of that animal, they don't have a choice, so it's my responsibility to take the best care of them that I can. If I am unable to care for even one of my animals, there is no way in the world that I would even think of taking on the responsibility for another one. If I don't have the ability or willingness to care for even a "free" animal then I have no business adding animal(s) that cost to my collection.
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And Thats what its Really about!
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NickMyers03
Moderator
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 1899
Location: fredericksburg va
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| PlayBall wrote: | | pdig69 wrote: |
25 dollar bp doesn't consitute testing if i can replace her with another that is well. i can't easily replace a caramel albino though . |
Wow, no respect for life at all. 25 bucks, 300, 1000? whatever your pet cost you. I (and most people around here) will do/pay what I can to save my pet. If I couldn't afford the vet bill I wouldn't have got one (five now) to begin with. |
GrayKat97- 
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pdig69
Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="PlayBall"] | pdig69 wrote: |
Wow, no respect for life at all. 25 bucks, 300, 1000? whatever your pet cost you. I (and most people around here) will do/pay what I can to save my pet. If I couldn't afford the vet bill I wouldn't have got one (five now) to begin with. |
You're missing the point that I've been so diligently trying to make here. everyone is thinking i don't care, wrong!!
i obviously cared very much if she got better..do you agree? If no, then you're missing the point.
everyone seems like they're reading "give her up" and thats where it stops. i was going to give her to a Veterinarian that specializes in BP's so she can get specialty care. I didn't know if I had the proper experience to make her better, so I wanted to give her to someone that did. Doesn't anyone understand this?
Then you might come back and say, ohh I wasn't willing to take care of a sick snake.
1. I did. First of all. If I didn't care, I wouldn't even have posted anything about her being sick because I wouldn't of had her.
2. Back to my main point, I thought it would be better for the Vet to take her. I thought it would be in her and my best interests.
And yes, Gray, the Vet I spoke to takes care of sick BP's. I didn't ask why, but apparently he has his own facility. He's the one who coached me on how to take care of the BP I have now.
But for IBD, that was my mistake. I just thought a majority of BP's had it if they were sick. She doesn't have IBD, I was just worried. That is a definite beginners mistake.
Plus why I seem upset is because just about everyone who is posting seems like you're all posting because my BP died due to lack of care. Please understand what I wrote above, because I believe it should make a difference!
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deborahbroadus
Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 6729
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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I am not judging, I understand the money issue. Please post pics of the set up.
Guys, let's all sit back and wait for the pics. If he gave the sick animal to a Vet, and if one took it, more power to him.
*It's easy to claim things and not show a pic, lots of trolls do this just to get attention. Some even post pictures of other people's snakes (they usually get caught).
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pdig69
Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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gray | Quote: | I have the sneaking suspicion that your vet told you your snake was unlikely to have IBD, but offered you the tests to make sure, which you then refused because of the cost. (I freely admit that I very well could be wrong here, and that's why I said "suspicion")
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He said it didn't sound like IBD and i can monitor her. The whole reason why I posted about her having IBD because I read this http://www.anapsid.org/ibd.html , and this http://www.rcreptiles.com/articles/inclusion-body-disease-virus.html. And every other article I've seen just mimicks these two websites basically word for word. Both say mouth rot is a sign...so, as a beginner, i wanted a second opinion!! I thought maybe here would be good : ) Instead, the worse assumptions come out and i don't receive much help!!
Dude If You Dont Care For Your Ball With Mouth Rot I Would Be Happy To Place It In My Care Send Me A Pm....Ill Pay For Shipping....magana, please, spare me. thanks
http://www.rcreptiles.com/forum/about3492.html , this is my initial post about her..... so, please, tell me i don't care....
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pdig69
Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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but i never did drop them off, because i couldnt
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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<sigh>
I'll try typing slower, so you have a better shot at understanding. Nobody is misunderstanding you, or missing your point...especially not ME. What some of these people are objecting to, and talking about is - in your own words, taken from this thread (and not counting the similar comments you made in the other one) | Quote: | | 25 dollar bp doesn't consitute testing if i can replace her with another that is well |
| Quote: | | And i'll say it again, I'm still not going to spend money on a ball python if he costs much less than the tests. |
I get that you tried...I'm just not nearly as impressed by it as you seem to think we should be. Like I told you before, all you did was get through a simple, and very common situation. I'm happy that it turned out well, but the IN YOUR FACE type of bs that accompanied the announcement was a bit over the top.
Some of the points that were made regarding your unwillingness to spend money on a cheap snake were quite applicable. I'm not suggesting that anyone run to the vet with every minor issue, but there are times it is appropriate.
I've been keeping reptiles on a serious level for almost 20 yrs, and that doesn't count the toads and lizards (and short term local snakes) I kept at various stages of my life. I've dealt with lots of problems (back then, the hobby was heavily tilted toward WC animals, and fresh imports were often in very poor condition), and made more than a few vet visits. In spite of, and because of, my diverse experience and what I have learned over the years, I know enough to see my vet when it is appropriate. I did so recently, in fact...and for a cheap animal. She was rather surprised at why I was there, as the situation at hand was easily recognized and the task to be performed was pretty straightforward...but I didn't have enough hands to both control the snake and do what needed to be done - believe me, I tried, lol. (Had she not been out of town when I first attempted to contact her, it could have been treated with medication...but, by the time she returned, IMO direct intervention was required). If I had used your logic, that snake would likely be dead by now. That vet visit may have cost more than the monetary value of the snake...but, she is alive and well, and that is the important thing to me. And THAT is why people take exception to your attitude. (and, as Deb pointed out, her next clutch - if I breed her again - will easily pay for the expense)
You also griped that nobody asked how you quarantined them...that was both after you had already told me they were on another floor & at the opposite end of the house, AND Deb had asked for pictures of your setups - which is sometimes easier and more accurate than having somebody describe things. BTW, fwiw, Deb has asked you for those pictures at least 3 times that I can recall......
As for me, I already acknowledged that if your other snakes were to get sick as a result of that one, it would most likely be to cross contamination.
Now, the IBD thing. Yes, it was a case of reading something you didn't understand and making poor assumptions...we can forgive that part of it. The problem that I had with the whole thing, and I suspect others noted, was that you thought it might have IBD and you were going to give it to somebody else. If you read those things you linked, you should certainly understand that IBD is a death sentence to BPs and HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS. As I told you, if you really thought it was even a possibility, you had only two choices - euthanize it, or offer it supportive care. Giving it away is not an option because of the risk it poses to other people's animals. It doesn't matter if I was confident it wasn't IBD, or if your vet felt the same way - YOU were still worried that it was, and were planning on taking a very irresponsible course...putting others at risk to minimize your own.
You think you got minimal help...to a degree, that is true. But, how can you expect anybody to help when you don't provide information that is requested. Some people on forums are quick to tell you what is wrong and how to fix it...but you never know how accurate the information might be, or even if the person dispensing it has a clue. Giving credit where it is due, this forum seems a quite a bit better about that. Simple, straightforward advice is readily given...but for something more complex, or out of people's scope of experience, the comments are much more reserved.
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pdig69
Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| hhmoore wrote: | <sigh>
YOU were still worried that it was, and were planning on taking a very irresponsible course...putting others at risk to minimize your own.
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That is a negative there, he knew what I was worried about. And he wanted the BP, I really didn't want to give it up. I didn't mislead anyone. He takes in sick snakes.... he doesn't put it with a healthy collection, they're all sick in some way. Sounds like an act of God, but apparently most get better, so he says.
So, about not spending money on a BP to have it fixed is primarily because my Veterinarian would like to have them. If it wasn't for this, then I would test them and treat them if their conditions weren't good.
I sounded a bit harsh stating that, but it is the truth. I will not spend money on an inexpensive BP when someone else can take care of her/him. The ones that are untreatable, I should say.
I love my pets, my dogs, everything that lives and breathes under my care. But if I had twenty dogs, and one dog had to be locked in a room while I force fed him meds every day. Then, I had to take care of the other 19 the next day. If there was a chance that it could spread to the other 19, then I would let an experienced professional Vet take her in so she can be treated properly.
I got batteries
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 503
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| pdig69 wrote: | | That is a negative there, he knew what I was worried about. And he wanted the BP, I really didn't want to give it up. I didn't mislead anyone. |
I didn't say you misled anyone. The point that I have futilely been trying to make is that regardless of your vets efforts to get free animals, YOU thought the animal might have IBD. The fact that YOU had that concern & were going to give it away is the problem...because your decision to do so reflects on you (regardless of whether the person you were giving the snake to believed you, or whether the snake actually had IBD).
I'm done
(isn't there an ignore button around here someplace?? Guess I will have to engage some self control and just stop looking)
Actually - one last question. Does your vet want these snakes to pad his collection...or is he conducting some form of research?
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