RCReptiles.com

[fschwartz]

Ok, we have a small problem. Where do you put the thermometer and thermostat probes? I thought we had things under control. I had the thermometer probe taped to the glass on the bottom of the tank above the UTH. That said the temp was at 90 degrees. Then we just got the thermostat, and the instructions said to suction it to the side of the tank. So I put both probes next to each other along the side of the tank, being careful not to put any tape on the sensors. Now the temp won't go above 80, and this is after buying a larger UTH (one designed for 30-40 gallon tanks). The "cooler" side is fine, right at 80. The other side won't go above it.

By the way, the "cooler" side has a smaller UTH (one meant for 10-20gallon tanks), and a light above it. The "hot" side has the larger pad and no light. When we put a light over it, the humidity dropped down to ~30%, so we replaced it with a damp towel.

So, there's about a 10 degree difference between the bottom of the tank, and the ambient air above the substrate. Is this normal? I'm confused about this.

(little later): As an experiment, I moved the two probes to just sit on the substrate in the middle of the tank, directly over the top of where the UTH is, and the temp is currently at 87.8. The heater seems to be on all the time, and the thermostat is turned all the way up, but we can't seem to get it to 90.

By the way, the snake has arrived today, and he's now in the tank. My son decided on the name "Ace" because there's a marking that reminds him of the Ace of Spades card.

thanks for your help,
Frank

[fschwartz]

I found this thread: http://www.rcreptiles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3111&highlight=temperature Which goes over pretty-much everything I just said above.

From what was said in that thread, my intentions are to get a ceramic bulb. If anyone has anything else to add or suggest, I'd appreciate it.

Hope I'm not annoying everyone with all these noob questions.

Frank

[RonCrawford]

Caught the thread late, my apologies. Glad to hear you have it resolved.

[fschwartz]

....on second thought, after doing more reading I'm thinking I just don't have a big enough UTH. So, I plan to ditch the smaller one I originally got, move the medium one to the cooler side, and get a large UTH to put under the hot side, and get rid of the lights on top, since I don't want to have to rely on overhead heating.

Regarding the probe- it sounds like the substrate surface is what we're mostly concerned about with regard to the temp. So do you guys bury your probe near the surface, or do you attach it to the side of the tank like the thermostat instructions told me to do?

See what I was saying about conflicting opinions?

[RonCrawford]

Take a look at the sticky thread about Thermostats. You can view it here http://www.rcreptiles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3235&highlight=tape+probe

[fschwartz]

Thanks for the responses, Ron.

Yea, that was the first thing I read. I ordered one of these: http://www.bigappleherp.com/BAH-1000-Thermostat?sc=2&category=15
on Sunday, and it came today with the snake (same UPS delivery).

It seems to be working, but the heater is on all the time, and never gets above 88.

I have the probe for the thermostat and for the thermometer at substrate level on the hot side.

[fschwartz]

Incidentally, this is the tank we have: http://www.zilla-rules.com/products/deluxe-snake-kit.htm It says 20Long, but I don't know what that equates to in terms of gallons. Is that a 20-gallon? The UTH we bought says it's for 30-40gallon tanks, but doesn't seem to be doing a good enough job.

[RonCrawford]

How are you measuring the 88F? Do you have the probe on the base of the tank itself? What does your digital probe read?

[fschwartz]

I have the probe just under the surface of the substrate, over where the UTH is.

Originally, I had it taped to the bottom of the tank, against the glass. Then I read you shouldn't do that. Then when I got the thermostat, it said to suction it to the side of the tank. But then I read later that it needs to be in the substrate, because that's where the snake will be.

That's on the hot side. The thermometer is one of those indoor/outdoor/humidity models. The probe is in the substrate on the hot side. The thermometer is on the tank wall near the cooler side. The cooler side has the smaller UTH, and a red light over it.

As of right now, the snake doesn't like the hide, he balled himself up in a weird position in the back corner of the tank. See the attached pic.

Location of ambient (cooler) side thermometer (this is the warmest it's been all day: 77.4/87.3):


Temporary location of thermostat and thermometer probes. I plan to put them under the surface of the substrate, but at the time of the photo, they were just on the surface. This is directly over the larger UTH.:


Incidentally, strange question. He seems to have balled himself up back there in the corner. Is that normal? I thought they liked hides better. We're going to get a bigger hide for the right side. The back portion of that log thing has a hide in it, but maybe not big enough. The second photo below is him trying to back into the hide when he was checking out the place. Guess he decided it wasn't big enough?





thanks,
Frank

[hhmoore]

There are a number of ways to approach thermostat probe placement, but attaching it to the side of the tank - when you are using a UTH - is not one of the better ones (that is fine if you are using an overhead heat source). Ideally, you will have the probe secured someplace, as its migration across the tank will really disrupt the heat source, lol. You can put it on the substrate, just under the surface of the substrate, or on/near the heating element...but you will have to take surface temperature measurements, and adjust accordingly.
btw, it can take a while for the heat to make its way through the substrate to the surface where you measure temps. How long will depend on the output of the device, the type & depth of the substrate, etc (as an example, when I changed a large enclosure over to a mulch substrate this winter, it took about 3 days for the surface temp to return to normal - and that was with 2ft of 11in heat tape (20w/ft), controlled by rheostat). Using an on/off type thermostat, it shouldn't take as long - but don't expect the temps on the side of the tank to get that warm without overhead heat.

[laurmann2000]

Congrats on your new little guy. He's adorable. I love your questions. I am new to this too and just got an UTH and it doesn't apprear to be working. I also have a 20Long (yes, that's 20 gallons) and a 30/40 gallon UTH but at first it was reading 87 degrees but seems to have stopped because now it will only read 81 degrees. I only got it yesterday. I have newspaper as substrate for now with some shredded paper over it and I've put the probe on the substrate which isn't think at all so I don't know why it's not getting warm. Also my humidity is reading at 40 on my digital thermometer but at 60 on my analog. What's with that? Could the digital be broken, I just bought that too. This is so frustrating because I want my little guy to be comfortable in his home.

BTW, maybe try a bigger hide. My guy seems to like the bigger of the two I have. You could always just cut a hole in a box for now to see if he would like a bigger one before you go out and invest in another expensive hide. Tell your son I love the name Ace. It's a great name for a snake.

[fschwartz]

The temp hit 80/90 last night, but then it dropped back down, and is currently 80/86.

Yea, we definitely need a bigger hide. He was out and about last night, and did find a place to hide in the bigger log on the right side, but I can see he needs a bigger one, so we'll pick that up today.

I'm lost on this heat issue. I guess we're going to have to shell out another $50 for the bigger heater. I don't know what else to do. I don't understand why a heater designed for a 40 gallon tank won't heat a 20 gallon tank.

I will have my son read your comments. He's very proud of his new snake.

[deborahbroadus]

How high do you have the thermostat? You will have to tweak it a bit to get the surface temps where you want them, and like Harald said, it would take a while for the results to be achieved. Also (imo) the current substrate that is being used isn't the best heat conductor they are too hard and un-uniform...I personally like Shredded Aspen myself (it's also softer).

Yes, there are conflicting opinions, information and no two people do it the same way. This could be because weather variations, temps in the house and simple preferences..but the basics never change..just the way people achieve the basics.

[fschwartz]

Well, at the moment, and most of yesterday, the thermostat was turned to max. Last night (around 2am), the temp was at 90, so I turned the setting to a little over 90, and when we got up this morning, it was back down to 80.

[deborahbroadus]