RCReptiles.com

[deborahbroadus]

[hhmoore]

[deborahbroadus]

Ok..now I have more questions:

1.) Why do you say it must be allowed to sit for at least 5 minutes but the bottle says "spray and wipe?"

2.) How do you KNOW that the manufacturer (and testers) don't know exactly how much time it needs, and if it needs more time, why wouldn't they say so in the directions?

I am not challenging, I am simply seeking clarification and more information. Inquiring minds would like to know.

[hhmoore]

[Buck_99]

[deborahbroadus]

[hhmoore]

I dragged my butt out of bed WAAAAAAY too early, and my bike is screaming for me, so this one will be short. I just wanted to toss out a couple of thoughts to stir the pot a bit more (even though neither of them is strictly of interest to the base group here).

Bearded dragon people: I have noticed several pages recommending the use of chlorhexidine in beardie husbandry. Adenovirus is obviously a big issue within that community right now, and I am of the impression that chlorhexidine will not be effective in the control of that virus. Why? Granted, Adenovirus is a huge group, but I have seen kill studies involving a handful of them that indicated they were marginally, if at all, affected by chlorhexidine.

Now, to come a little closer to home...and I have seen no evidence of this, one way or the other, so it is purely speculation on my part. IBD. I have seen many people touting their quarantine & disinfection practives, and being totally convinced that they would be able to effectively isolate any issue which might arise. But, I am aware of a couple of specific cases (so I guess there is SOME evidence - it just isn't in the form of scientific study) where what were thought to be praiseworthy quarantine and disinfection with chlorhexidine have not been able to isolate & protect a collection. My suspicion is that IBD is not susceptible to chlorhexidine. It would be great to see some word from the researchers regarding what, if any, disinfectants can have an impact in that regard.

(to bring it closer to home for everybody - there have been cases of significant losses in BP collections due to "resistant viral infection"... I wonder if standard disinfection practices will prove effective against those pathogens)


Again, none of this should be taken negatively against chlorhexidine. It still has a place in routine husbandry, and is a good product. It is relatively inexpensive, essentially nontoxic when used as instructed, effective against a broad spectrum of bacteria (and some viruses), and it is a good antiseptic - which cannot be said for "better" disinfectants (antiseptic meaning it can be used directly on the animal - for abrasions, stomatitis, etc).

[hhmoore]

Hmmmm - looks like nobody wants to play....

Too bad.
I went looking for a piece of information I had seen before, so I could reference the source when I said something that some people might want to dispute. I found, instead, a piece that not only confirmed that, but contradicted another thing I had read several times. One of the problems with searching for information on chlorhexidine is that there are just SOOOOOO many forms available (rinses, scrubs, soaps, shampoos, etc). You really have to pay attention to what you are reading about, because some features of one product may not hold true for others.
Anyway, the contradicting statement was that the disinfecting properties of chlorhexidine are not diminished by the presence of organic matter (the previous information I had seen stated that they were, and recommended cleaning before disinfection - I know that THAT was a different product, and I'm pretty sure the information related to veterinary practice and disinfectant use, vs the antiseptic use described in this one). Maybe it depends on they type, condition, and amount of organic matter that is there?? Regardless, to me, gross cleaning before disinfection makes sense.

The information I had been seeking was about the impact of soaps, detergents, and other substances on the effectiveness of chlorhexidine. Admittedly, the thought was triggered by another post I had seen - that, while I won't contradict it, just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
Anyway - for those that are interested, take a peek http://www.sageproducts.com/education/pdf/20785.pdf


Oh, and I'm going to have to try to find the thing I saw the other day - I mentioned it in an earlier post...about the chlorhexidine glutonate not being effective against Pseudomonas. It was one of those things that I saw, and it stuck in my head, but I can't recall the details. I know that most of what I have seen indicates that both C glutonate and C diacetate are quite lethal to Pseudomonas (*at least most strains, and there has been evidence of a large number of strains of chlorhexidine resistant P. aeruginosa found in hospitals). I need to find out the specifics on that citation, though, because if it was legit - and not just something thrown out there by somebody with a web page, it might be worth re-evaluating things. I generally pass by the unofficial looking stuff, but I'll admit that sometimes I read it...and it usually causes confusion when I find something that contradicts it because I can't recall where I saw the information & if it was legit

[GrayKat97]

I used to work for a veterinarian, we used Nolvasan Solution (chlorhexidine) as a spray and wipe disinfectant between patients and for chemical sterilization of surgical instruments that couldn't go in the autoclave (soak for 15 minutes in double strength) I also used it to clean the surgery after the days use but in that case I mixed with bleach to aid in the removal of any stains. We also used Nolvasan to flush wounds that had pus involved ie absesses. There is also Nolvasan Scrub which is a surgical scrub used by/for those of us who are allergic to betadine. I wouldn't want to use the scrub to clean tubs with though 1 it's more expensive 2 it's soapy and would take a long time to rinse.

According to the vet I worked for, you should look for chlorhexidine diacetate as opposed to chlorhexidine gluconate (although she never did tell me why )

All that being said I personally use the Nolvasan S solution as opposed to generic because I love the smell and figure its worth a few extra dollars.

there's my 2 cents.

[hhmoore]

[GrayKat97]

We were already using Nolvasan, mixed the bleach into that for better stain removal, Surgery can get pretty gross by the end of an 8 hour day and the Nolvasan wasn't real great at getting some of it up.

Thanks for the info about the diff between the two, I've always wondered.

[hhmoore]

[deborahbroadus]

I'm thinking it was perhaps for the stain removing properties in bleach?

But I see your point Harold, Bleach kills everything, no need for the "N.' Perhaps except as a smell diffuser?

[hhmoore]

I suspect it was more along the lines of the facility's infection control protocol...when it says that in *this* situation, you use Product D, that's what you do. The individual doing the job can't just say, "I'm going to use Product E instead, because it does *something* better than Product D. (so instead, they use Product E for its benefits, and continue to use Product D to follow the rules). As pointed out earlier, bleach does act directly on organic material, so it definitely offers an advantage in messy cleanups.

I should have pointed out earlier that most of my commentary was specifically about C glutonate. Way back when, I researched an informal compare/contrast between the two...and decided to go with the cheaper version for general use (I was using Roccal D for everything at the time). Since I wasn't using C diacetate, I eventually stopped paying attention to material related to its use/effectiveness. I'm fairly sure, however that bleach and quaternary ammonium products outperform C diacetate as disinfectants.
One of the nice benefits of (and reasons I went with) C gluconate is that it can be used as an antiseptic. SOME preparations of C diacetate can be used in that capacity as well...but I don't think all of them are suited to it.

[deborahbroadus]

Ok, I would prefer never to have to use bleach again. It's apparently unforgiving if mixed too strongly or if the tubs aren't rinsed very well.

In the interest of time-saving solutions, I have gone on a rampage trying to find something that may be stronger than Chlorhexidine and not as harmful as bleach (I consider anything that has to be done "correctly" to contain "risk."

I found this: http://www.vanodine.com/vanodine_v18_herp_disinfectant.html