RCReptiles.com

[tigasnake]

So it has been widely exercised that feeding in the snake's primary vivarium promotes aggressiveness or confusion when you stick your hand inside to handle it.

Others including the widely acclaimed breeder, Bob Clark, claim that it is simply not the case. They suggest that scent reflects its aggression. If you washed your hands with the same soap with the same scent before handling the snake everytime, it will become accustomed to the scent and know what is to be expected.

Logically it makes sense that if a snake is moved to a "kill room" once a week for several hours, it gives the impression to be on attack-mode rather than safe-mode. It also helps with people using sparingly placed substrate as the primary bedding, so the snake is moved to a container with newspaper to ensure that no substrate get swallowed at dinner time.

What does the community think?

[RonCrawford]

I won't retype what I typed already so my thoughts on the topic can be read here http://rcreptiles.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/10/should_i_feed_my_ball_python_in_its_tank.

[ryancbj22]

I voted yes because the majority of my snakes do feed in a separate container. I also have a couple that refuse to feed in anything other than there enclosure. I care for mainly bp's but I also have a small collection of Corn snake's as well. The Corn snake's I have will feed anywhere anytime regardless of the situation. The younger bp's are great feeder's but my adult is very picky. Anyone who has ever owned bp's know's the story on feeding with bp's so I won't go into that.

I can personally see the discussion and the different opinions. I would personally prefer to feed in a seperate enclosure or container. I use an empty tub that is not being utilized (yet). My reasoning behind a separate enclosure has nothing to do with the fear of having an unwanted act of aggression from any certain snake. I use this due to the fact that I use aspen bedding as substrate and i'm concerned about ingestion of the substrate during feeding. If I used newspaper than yes I probably would feed in there container's. I personally think an act of agression due to a feeding response can happen just as easily in a separate container as it can anywhere else. I have noticed that I have to becarefull after feeding when it is time to move the particular snake back into the original enclosure. There already in that feeding mode so anything that moves in that enclosure is considered prey until they decifer what's what, but until they decifer whether it's prey or my hand I have to be a little cautious. A part of owning snake's is getting bit I'm sure anybody here with a decent amount snake's has probably been bit at least once, with the exception i'm sure of a few. Most of the time when I or someone else get's bit the majority of the time it's the keeper's fault not always though by any means.

There has been some pretty good discussions on here about handling the snake after feeding to move them back to there enclosure. I can see both side's of this argument as well. I beleive it was Deb who said would you want to be handled like that after a full belly. The obvious answer is no, I personally take the chance and I am very very cautious when attempting this. I make sure to cradle the snake with two hands and not let the bulge or prey just dangle. This is a pretty quick process considering the tub I feed in is the bottom tub of the rack that the snake's are housed in. I think this is another one of those that what ever work's for a certain individual on there certain snake's. As I said before I completely understand both side's of this argument, and I think this is a great debate that I wouldn't mind seeing going a little further (not like the other debate that is going on right now though)

[jb.t3ch]

i didnt vote because there wasnt a "sometimes" option

this is just my personal experience that as long as my hands dont smell like prey and i have NO prey item in the area then my snakes wont bite my hand off

my cornsnake is a very aggressive feeder never refusing a meal and at almost 2 years old she would eat every 3 days if i fed her that often. the only time i almost made a mistake with her was when i was bringing home "dinner" i left the mouse box on top of her cage (i was thinking instead of me reaching in and waking her she will wake when she smells mouse) she smelled it and came a'looking. well i opened her cage and she was so aggressive at any of my movement (she was food motivated) that i could barely get her out of her tank. every time i reached in there and touched her she would turn and assume i was the mouse so i would jerk my hand back. well i finally braved (since i knew my hands smelled like soap) to just reach in and grab her and when she felt my hand she turned instantly and soon as her mouth got to my hand she realised and didnt attack.

with my ball pythons i have never been mistaken even when my hands smelled like prey (this is not normal habit nor do i condone it). bps are extemely shy and if they dont feel secure they can and often will refuse a meal. if my bp acts shy after i pull them out and refuse a meal in the seperate tank then back in they go and the rat goes behind them. once back in their home mine have hardly ever refused a meal.

so to answer, my cornsnake eats in a feed container 99.9999% of the time

and my bps about 50%

[deborahbroadus]

I have way too many to be picking out any to feed out of their bins (I use racks) so my answer is I feed in the enclosure.

I have read quite a few conflicting opinions on this procedure. When I read an opinion, I take in consideration who is giving the opinion. I don't remember any articles by experienced breeders etc, that subscribe to the theory that feeding in the tank promotes aggression.

Perhaps someone has some.

[PlayBall]

I also voted yes. I guess the main issue with me is that I worry too much on my snakes accidentally eating some substrate. I've been feeding Yeya on a different container since she was less than a month old and every time I put her on the feeding tub she knows there's food on the way. I don't worry about getting bitten bc it hasn't happened yet (with yeya). Even if my hand is the first thing that goes in the feeding tub. I think it's all about scent, prey scent that is. I hope some day I'll be able to feed all of them inside their tubs bc it would be much easier for them and me.

[junkopardner]

That's a great question, and as a newbie I have a couple on this.

A lot of what I've read says that feeding your snake in his main enclosure somehow "conditions" the snake to associate anything being introduced in his enclosure as potential "prey" (ie. your hand).

But a lot of what I've researched and talked to some people about claimed that that wasn't the main concern as to why you should feed them in a different enclosure.

One of the main reasons was substrate, for example. A lot of people's enclosures have substrate that, if ingested during the feed, could potentially lead to "impaction".

Another thought was conditioning. For example, if you fed your snake for some time in a separate enclosure, then every time you put them in that one they would know "exactly" what was up.

Whereas if you fed them in their main enclosure, most of the time their enclosure was being entered into (to get them out to play, bathe, for cleaning etc), it would have nothing to do with feeding. So if they "were" hungry, they could assume it was eating time when in fact that's not why you were entering the enclosure.

Since I've had mine, I've always fed him in a separate enclosure that's completely empty, lined with paper towels and a drug store heating pad underneath on medium (he doesn't like high, he told me). And outside of feeding problems at first (mainly because he was fed live B4 and I feed frozen), it's been automatic since then.

When I put him in there now, he's like a Pavlovian dog salivating because he knows what's coming. I just drop the prey in there and go back to writing. I don't jiggle it or anything. Anymore, it takes him no time at all. In fact, the last time, I had it on the tongs and before I could even drop it he tried to hit it.

It's almost automatic now.

So I would vote for a separate enclosure for feeding based on the conditioning, as the issue with feeding him in his main enclosure is problematic because:

A-The majority of time I'm in the main enclosure is not for feeding.
B-I currently use Aspen bedding which "could" cause impaction if swallowed.
C- His whole demeanor changes as soon as I put him in his feeding tank. He's ready to go.

Any thoughts?

[Buck_99]

There's no right or wrong answer on this one. The risk of impaction is real, but that can be eliminated by choosing a different substrate for the primary enclosure. I subscribe to the notion that feeding in a separate container can condition them to have the feeding response on cue, but I think the smell of prey and time of day work equally well. Finally, you have to consider what to do when you have multiple snakes. If 10 snakes are eating one night, do you feed in 10 separate feeding containers? That's getting a little cumbersome, but not as awkward as rotating all 10 snakes into and out of the same feeding tub (or several tubs), while trying to eliminate the scent of prey from your hands between feedings. I've fed in enclosure and in separate feeding tub, both ways work fine.

Disclaimer: I use aspen substrate for most of my ball pythons and feed them in their home enclosures. I accept the risk of impaction.

[arlynos]

I prefer to feed in another enclosure based on the fact I feed live and just 2 days ago when i fed TY she had a incident where she struck and the mouse moved and she got it by the hind legs thus causing the mouse a chance to bite her and I wouldnt of been able to act quick enough to stop the mouse in my tank, so I had to break its neck with the tongs before it could bite, but being I have only 1 snake it works for me.

[GrayKat97]

I currently feed in a seperate container. I only have 2 BPs so it's not a huge strain on my time. When I finally have enough money to give in to this BP Addiction like I want to, that probably won't be the case and will then switch to feeding in their own enclosures.

[junkopardner]

Buck and Gray-

I completely agree that if you had multiple snakes that it would just be way too time consuming to feed all of them in separate enclosures and you would just have to feed them in their home enclosures.

But how real would you say the "risk" of impaction is, if you had a substrate that was considered a "risk" substrate for impaction?

Also, a note I forgot to add was that I constantly switch "feeding enclosures" on my snake to see how much of it is the enclosure itself or just the fact that it's different. I've used spare aquariums, ranging from large hex's to standard 10 gallon ones, plastic storage bins, shoe boxes etc.

Up till now, the enclosure itself doesn't seem to be a factor at all. The feeding response is virtually automatic regardless.

It seems as though the simple act of a "different" enclosure is what stimulates the auto feeding response.

Another question for those that feed in the main enclosure:

If you feed "pre-killed", and the snake doesn't eat but just wallows around/over it and you have to take it out and re-freeze it, what are the issues with "prey scent" or possible bacteria from the prey in the enclosure?

J

[deborahbroadus]

[NickMyers03]

i feed in the same container they live in.

they do not see my hand as food because i place the rat in the front and only open the tub a few inches.. if i am cleaning or changing water i open the tub 3/4 of the way and let them know its me and not food.

no risk of eating substrate as i use paper...

[deborahbroadus]

[Buck_99]