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RonCrawford Site Admin

Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 2024 Location: Pottsville, PA (USA)
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Feral
Joined: 23 Mar 2008 Posts: 42
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you both!
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pdig69
Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Posts: 113
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Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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Hey guys, I was reading up on a website, and the author stated that, for example, a spider snake can be het for normal? Thus producing a different outcome in the punnet square. They also said an albino can be like this as well, this het for normal. They called them visual albinos and true albinos. I don't understand, I thought an albino was an albino 
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BP_Lover
Joined: 18 Apr 2008 Posts: 161
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: |
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what would happen if you breed a normal to a spider?? and i know this probably seems dum what what is a normal a dom or codom and alos what about a spider same question thanks 
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NickMyers03 Moderator

Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 1904 Location: fredericksburg va
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:31 am Post subject: |
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spider is a Dom as there is no proven super. there has thought to be some made but its a leathal gene. there is one person i know has had 4 clutchs of spiders from the same male that came from a spider to spider breeding and EVERY offspring has been spider, BUT more than have the babies have been dead in the egg.
i guess you could call a wild type or normal a Dom as it will show up 50% of the time or at least be 50% of the genes because it has no normal. if Ron wants to chime in on the normal genes please do i have never thought about it LOL
Spider X Normal =
50% Spiders
50% Normals
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BP_Lover
Joined: 18 Apr 2008 Posts: 161
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:09 am Post subject: |
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so then the whole punette square doesn't apply because Spider (A,A) and Normal (B,B) would make them all 100% het for spider im confused this is what i read ( well understood from a website deb told me about)
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deborahbroadus Moderator

Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 6757 Location: Baltimore, MD
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| BP_Lover wrote: | | so then the whole punette square doesn't apply because Spider (A,A) and Normal (B,B) would make them all 100% het for spider im confused this is what i read ( well understood from a website deb told me about) |
You are not taking into consideration that there is NO het for Spider. It's either a Spider or it is not. It's not a "possible" Spider, or "I gotta breed it to see if it has Spider genes." 
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NickMyers03 Moderator

Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 1904 Location: fredericksburg va
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Spider is not AA because it has half normal Gene so it would be A a
Normal also isnt NN its N n.
so you would get a split of 50% spiders and 50% normals if odds where exact. now you could also have the odds against you like i just did on my pastel clutch and get 2 pastels and 4 normals...
the only way you would get 100% morphs in a clutch is if you have the super form of that morph ( example= Blue eye lucy, Ivory, Super pastel, super cinny/black pastel and so on)
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deborahbroadus Moderator

Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 6757 Location: Baltimore, MD
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| pdig69 wrote: | Hey guys, I was reading up on a website, and the author stated that, for example, a spider snake can be het for normal? Thus producing a different outcome in the punnet square. They also said an albino can be like this as well, this het for normal. They called them visual albinos and true albinos. I don't understand, I thought an albino was an albino  |
Odd way of phrasing. Post the website that said it that way please.
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NickMyers03 Moderator

Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 1904 Location: fredericksburg va
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| deborahbroadus wrote: | | pdig69 wrote: | Hey guys, I was reading up on a website, and the author stated that, for example, a spider snake can be het for normal? Thus producing a different outcome in the punnet square. They also said an albino can be like this as well, this het for normal. They called them visual albinos and true albinos. I don't understand, I thought an albino was an albino  |
Odd way of phrasing. Post the website that said it that way please. |
spiders CAN NOT be hets for anything unless it is bred to a recessive morph. if they mean het for normal that it is a codom and when bred to a normal will produce ( on average) 50% of each. when people like this say het for normal all they do is confuse newbies.
an albino CAN NOT be het for normal!!! thats just plain and simple. when you breed an albino to a normal it will produce all normals 100% HET for albino. albino is a recessive gene and it takes two animals with the gene to create one. if this statement was true then AlbinoXAlbino ( which will reslut in 100% of the hatchlings being albino) would also create normals which is FALSE
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deborahbroadus Moderator

Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 6757 Location: Baltimore, MD
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| NickMyers03 wrote: | | deborahbroadus wrote: | | pdig69 wrote: | Hey guys, I was reading up on a website, and the author stated that, for example, a spider snake can be het for normal? Thus producing a different outcome in the punnet square. They also said an albino can be like this as well, this het for normal. They called them visual albinos and true albinos. I don't understand, I thought an albino was an albino  |
Odd way of phrasing. Post the website that said it that way please. |
spiders CAN NOT be hets for anything unless it is bred to a recessive morph. if they mean het for normal that it is a codom and when bred to a normal will produce ( on average) 50% of each. when people like this say het for normal all they do is confuse newbies.
an albino CAN NOT be het for normal!!! thats just plain and simple. when you breed an albino to a normal it will produce all normals 100% HET for albino. albino is a recessive gene and it takes two animals with the gene to create one. if this statement was true then AlbinoXAlbino ( which will reslut in 100% of the hatchlings being albino) would also create normals which is FALSE |
You are correct Nick.
I wanted to see the website to see if the wording was "tongue in cheek" or if they actually thought that what they were saying is true. I also wanted to check and see how old the information was and who wrote it.
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pdig69
Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Posts: 113
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| deborahbroadus wrote: | | NickMyers03 wrote: | | deborahbroadus wrote: | | pdig69 wrote: | Hey guys, I was reading up on a website, and the author stated that, for example, a spider snake can be het for normal? Thus producing a different outcome in the punnet square. They also said an albino can be like this as well, this het for normal. They called them visual albinos and true albinos. I don't understand, I thought an albino was an albino  |
Odd way of phrasing. Post the website that said it that way please. |
spiders CAN NOT be hets for anything unless it is bred to a recessive morph. if they mean het for normal that it is a codom and when bred to a normal will produce ( on average) 50% of each. when people like this say het for normal all they do is confuse newbies.
an albino CAN NOT be het for normal!!! thats just plain and simple. when you breed an albino to a normal it will produce all normals 100% HET for albino. albino is a recessive gene and it takes two animals with the gene to create one. if this statement was true then AlbinoXAlbino ( which will reslut in 100% of the hatchlings being albino) would also create normals which is FALSE |
You are correct Nick.
I wanted to see the website to see if the wording was "tongue in cheek" or if they actually thought that what they were saying is true. I also wanted to check and see how old the information was and who wrote it. |
I don't remember which website it was, I got tired looking for it. The way they were saying it is exactly how I am saying it. I think, they were taking the true results of the punnet square and saying that. As in, we know that the spider cannot be het for normal, but the punnet square results say it can. Something like that, I posted it here because I've heard in the past about the albino thing I posted. Visual albinos and true albinos, I actually heard it from someone that deals with a lot of BP's before I bought my first one. They said I would be better off producing albinos than buying one, becuase there are visual and true albinos. Visuals should be less than true albinos since results are different when breeding. I thought maybe you guys would know, I'm just going to stop posting here, save you all the frustration, because I'm getting frustrated trying to defend everything I say from here on out.
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 506
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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There are a lot of misconceptions and bits of misinformation posted on the internet...that should be common knowledge. Factor in something that is not generally well understood by most people, and you can increase the number of errors significantly. I don't claim to be a genetics whiz, but trying to blindly put letters into a Punnett square without understanding the way the genes work doesn't always give the best answers (and the answers don't always make sense).
Not to pick on Nick, but his statement that normal isn't NN, its Nn, just strikes me funny. I think that people would be better served trying to comprehend the basics than battling over the labels. Let me put it in a different perspective. Tradition would dictate that a homozygous albino is AA, and a het is Aa. What if we said that the het is Na (normal, het albino). and a homozygous albino (by necessity) is aa.
breeding a het x a het would still give you NN, Na, Na, aa; wouldn't it?
and a homozygous x a het would still be aa, aa, Na, Na; right?
To take it a bit further along this path, consider a spider to be Ns
a spider x a normal would still be Ns, Ns, NN, NN. which makes as much sense to me as calling it Ss and getting NS, NS, Ns, Ns (with the NS being spiders, and the Ns being normals).
Learn...don't just apply
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NickMyers03 Moderator

Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 1904 Location: fredericksburg va
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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harald you just said what i said more in depth... you can replace the NN with anything you want...make it XX or xx or Xx if you want it still comes out the same..
but the examples you showed still were correct as a het to het breeding will give you the chance of 25% of the babies being albino
and spider to normal still came out as 50% split
NOW........ on the subject of a visual albino or true albino...this person that said that ( if they really said that which i think any one that knows bps as you said they did wouldnt ) is STUPID... an ALBINO is an ALBINO. your trying to state there are Albinos and snakes that look like ALBINOS... stop listening to this person and if he tries to talk to you RUN.
there are diffrent types of albinos, blusher,HC,fader and so on but they are all ALBINOS...
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deborahbroadus Moderator

Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 6757 Location: Baltimore, MD
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Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| pdig69 wrote: | | deborahbroadus wrote: | | NickMyers03 wrote: | | deborahbroadus wrote: | | pdig69 wrote: | Hey guys, I was reading up on a website, and the author stated that, for example, a spider snake can be het for normal? Thus producing a different outcome in the punnet square. They also said an albino can be like this as well, this het for normal. They called them visual albinos and true albinos. I don't understand, I thought an albino was an albino  |
Odd way of phrasing. Post the website that said it that way please. |
spiders CAN NOT be hets for anything unless it is bred to a recessive morph. if they mean het for normal that it is a codom and when bred to a normal will produce ( on average) 50% of each. when people like this say het for normal all they do is confuse newbies.
an albino CAN NOT be het for normal!!! thats just plain and simple. when you breed an albino to a normal it will produce all normals 100% HET for albino. albino is a recessive gene and it takes two animals with the gene to create one. if this statement was true then AlbinoXAlbino ( which will reslut in 100% of the hatchlings being albino) would also create normals which is FALSE |
You are correct Nick.
I wanted to see the website to see if the wording was "tongue in cheek" or if they actually thought that what they were saying is true. I also wanted to check and see how old the information was and who wrote it. |
I don't remember which website it was, I got tired looking for it. The way they were saying it is exactly how I am saying it. I think, they were taking the true results of the punnet square and saying that. As in, we know that the spider cannot be het for normal, but the punnet square results say it can. Something like that, I posted it here because I've heard in the past about the albino thing I posted. Visual albinos and true albinos, I actually heard it from someone that deals with a lot of BP's before I bought my first one. They said I would be better off producing albinos than buying one, becuase there are visual and true albinos. Visuals should be less than true albinos since results are different when breeding. I thought maybe you guys would know, I'm just going to stop posting here, save you all the frustration, because I'm getting frustrated trying to defend everything I say from here on out. |
No one is making you defend everything you say. You said something that I do not think most of us are familliar with and we wanted (I) you to share the site where you found that information.
Feeling defensive is a state of mind. 
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