RCReptiles.com

[RonCrawford]

Why do you think they do it to their offspring let alone each other for that matter? I'm referring to a breeding group with only one male per colony.

[deborahbroadus]

Did anyone ever check the sexes of the mice that had been cannibalized? Ratio of male babies to females?

Could be the male killing off competition? Females doing the same thing? Lack of something in the diet?

[Luke S. Tick]

The thing about it is, guys, I think that they should have been weened. Food got low, so they started drinking milk from Momma again. They were each about a quarter of her size or larger and she had 11 pups. They started taking turns drinking and she was stuck fast. From there, I'm not sure how she died or if she was cannabalized at all. I found her dried out, literally, nothing but skin and bones, but intact skin and bones. I had seen her 2 or three days before, checked to see if they had food each day but one. It was late at night when I got to cleaning the cage and was dumbfounded when I took all the mice out and was short an albino female, Momma. Pups were fine and healthy, AND EATING FOOD with Poppa. Momma dying may have been what forced them to switch, too young or not.
I now hang food in a cage on the side of the tank, as well as have a little trough so that it's harder for them to carry the food away and hide. Also, she was the one and only bred female in the tank at the time, which puts all the strain on one mouse to nurse. If there is more than one nursing doe, they will sometimes take turns watching the brood, especially if the two does are directly related.

Other than that time, which I am not sure was true cannabalism, the only thing close is some hounding and pretty fierce nipping. Always between female additions to the colony and older established females. Poppa, my male, doesn't mind new additions at all. In fact he can't stop fu... Oh, keep it 'G' rated right? LOL~!
I had one male youngling that escaped my inspection when sexing, and he and his sire, Poppa, got along fine in the same tank (with 14 females) until I found him out and fed him off. I know he was breeding, and I'm curious to see what turns up in the tank this time. He was het albino and so are the females, and his mom, and possibly mate, is full albino. The younger females, his sisters, are also het for black and white, as is he. He was all grey, and the rest were the same, dark brown, or dark black. Lot's of variety. And to top it off, Poppa has really bent ears, and I am curious to see if that turns up again somewhere.
I've got a crazy stew in the pot! I'm switching to rats soon, but I need to set up more shelves downstairs, and Christmas has me broke!

Sorry, related but not really, just ranting. I'll stop here...

Luke

[deborahbroadus]

Wow, this convinces me I am doing the right thing by taking those babies out of the tank when they are walking and have teeth. lol I give them the catfood, dogfood, cheerios in a bowl until they are fully eating then switch them to a rat cage with wired top. ((still waiting on my delivery))

I know that some people leave them all in the cages, (not just you, Luke), but I am talking about Rats, mice don't pose the same threat, but I only leave those that actually need to nurse in with the mamas. I don't want a fight started if I have to start feeding them off, so I take them (usually unless I need a ratpup or pinky) when they are old enough. (and I take them out when I am cleaning their cages). * dump everything into a tote, then after done, lift out the big guys, and just put the babies somewhere else if it is time for separation. I think this break that I give them is very important.

I think the mamas are actually relieved! it frees them up for a while to eat, sleep, eat, eat, and sleep before getting preg again.
Unless someone has information to the contrary?

[Luke S. Tick]

I had read that mice were much more cannabalistic than rats. Probably has something to do with quicker metabolisms, smaller brains, shorter life span, and larger litters. I have also read that sometimes a barren doe will go rouge and kill off any pups she can get a hold of. Can wipe out an entire generation in a tub, if not caught. Sounds harsh, but if a doe isn't pregnant by the time another in her tank gives birth, I'll feed them off as well.

Anyone else know more on this?

BTW, just in case anyone ever thinks this isn't such a bad idea, never, NEVER EVER, EVER NEVER EVER NEVER put rats and mice in the same cage together. I personally have never done this, would never even think to.

Unfortunatly, I do know someone who did, and the results were terrible. One rat in a colony of mice. The rat and 7 or 8 mice died in the course of a few hours. Truely a bloody mess.

Luke

[deborahbroadus]

I actually had thought to. I only have 5 mice and they are no bigger than my middle finger (I don't know how balls can survive off these puffs of air and bone! ) Thanks for the warning!

Only one case of cannabilism in my rats, they didn't eat it, just killed it. I had a ratpup left over from a batch that I had purchased from a reptile store; it was too young to survive on its on so I gave it to a female to nurse ( I had done this before without a problem while she was with the Male. She had already given birth previously and I had separated her from the male. By this time her babies were ready to be separated, so I had removed them and given her this orphan which she proceeded to adopt.

I had been hand taming this one baby while it was with the female with no problems (it was so cute, I was considering keeping it as a primary breeder and not feeding it off). Later I put the female and the pup back with the male and as usual I took it out to hold for a while then put it back.

When I next came down the pup was dead, I guess the female and male decided to kill it so I would stop reaching in the cage?

I know about human smells on the newborns, but this was an established pup.

[Luke S. Tick]

Gosh, I just don't know. I don't even touch mouse pups until weened. The tank is big enough, with enough females, I just change all the litter I can get to without totally destroying thier little hovels, the does do the rest. Of course, I'm not trying to imprint on them either. Poppa has sired about 10 or 15 litters and is the oldest. He's only 5 months old, and comes to my hand if I leave it in the tank. Other than that, I guess they're just too disposable to consider pets. I haven't introduced anyone new to the tank in over three months (oh, wait, I guess I'm wrong - 1 albino doe in early November - pups were too small to feed off and she was left over from a dozen purchase). It just churnes out mice. Last litter group, there were 40 pups, about half males. I feed them off first, leaving the females in the main tank to breed again. By the time the next round is giving birth, any females that arn't pregnant get fed off as well. By that time I have hopper or bigger pups again.

Oh, and good thing you didn't mix the rodents, Deb, I would have hated for you to find out the hard way!

Luke

[Jordan700]

The mice at the museum are also starting to eat the young......from what I can see its other females eating the other mothers offspring. I'm about to feed the whole lot of them if they dont stop!