RCReptiles.com

[eletness]

Hi. New to this list, and have been doing some research now and then about adding to my family with the purchase of a snake. I am most interested in the Ball Python, and this is my first step to learning more and actually attempting to contact people. For starters here is a briefing of myself:

Single F, 28, live in a 4-plex (spacious) in the city, own 1 cat and 1 dog, work as a vet tech 40+ hrs a week, devote much of my spare time to my animals.

NEOPHYTE (this word seems appropriate ): I have never been an owner of a reptile and wondering if anyone could advise realistic info for me- in other words, I think I know what I am getting into. I require person-to-person advice, pros & cons, do’s & don’ts from personal experience, conversation that leads to other aspects that I may not have considered- I want it all the good the bad and the ugly- no holding back.

I will start with inquiries about male vs. female; it’s always been my thought to own a female. I know that females are usually larger, is this always the case? What about temperament differences? etc., are there more specifics habits consistent with one sex over the other?

Ellen, Minneapolis

[deborahbroadus]

[reptilehunter]

Welcome Ellen to RC Reptiles forum. If you have any questions on lizards that is my speciality. I am a 20 year herpetoculturist and belong to to a few herp societies and reptile groups.

[RonCrawford]

Welcome to the forum Ellen!

I'll let others chime in first because I keep so many ball pythons and you're probably looking for feedback from other first timers. In the meantime, please explore the vast amount of literature available for free here http://www.rcreptiles.com/links.html#anchor1 as I'm sure you'll more than likely have other questions that will be addressed in the literature as well.

[Radical]

Alright, here goes *Takes deep breath*

This is all based on what I've read and input from other people.

Ball Pythons are among the easiest maintenance Pythons, growing only 3-5 feet. Currently I have a male Ball Python, about 7 months old, eating every 5 days on a full sized mouse (frozen/thawed) without any problems. The only times it has struck at me is when I was first feeding it without any tongs, it missed and nailed my finger and coiled, but released after I uncoiled it by the tail; Also it struck at me when I picked him up and he was nervous so he took some quick strikes at my other hand (missed both times) but after handling he calmed down so much that I could almost trust him safely around even a baby ( Although I wouldn't do that. ). As well I laid him down on my bed (which the mattress is on my floor) and walked a few feet away to do something quickly on the computer, when I was walking back he struck at my pantleg (and missed, he has pretty bad aim if you haven't noticed already) but after I started handling him he calmed down once again. He's never struck at me while I was reaching into the cage to get him, but that's because I never gave him the opportunity to, I approach him from behind, keeping a distance from his head until he realizes I'm not going to hurt him, and then I'll gently pick him up and he'll be fine. If I pick him up too quickly he'll get nervous and potentially strike, but other than that he's perfectly docile and like I said, very very calm once he knows he is safe (I'm sure that goes for all Snakes, and not just mine).

The housing, well there are lots of information on housing the python, typically you'll need a tank large enough for him to stretch out, a warmer spot for basking, and a cooler spot for cooling off, I have a hide on each end because they feel more comfortable and less stressed out when they are in their hides. As well I have a tree branch (store bought, don't use one from outside or you'll be bringing bugs in, which is not good) that he uses very often for trying to make his escapes and just hanging out. You should have two thermometer/hygrometers on each end to measure temperatures and humidity, as well if you want a sticky one in the middle for measuring ambient temps (it will also tell you which end is warmer and cooler based on the colours of the thermometer). You'll also need a water dish big enough for soaking its entire body in, as well as a fresh supply of water ( I usually change it once or twice a week ). Substrate can be as easy as newspaper or paper towels, and there are tons of others you can use, but there are also types of wood that are poisonous for the snake, so you should do some research before you put in your substrate; Personally I just use newspaper or paper towels. You'll need a head supply for your snake, the most favourable being an under-tank heater, which you'll also need to hook up a thermostat because they can be very hot, and possibly burning your snake or even become a fire hazard.

Alright, so let's recap... So far I've gone over temperament and housing.

Feeding. It is strongly recommended that you only feed your snake frozen/thawed or pre-killed prey that is store bought for numerous reasons. One being that wild caught prey might contain parasites and mites which could pass onto your snake. Also, feeding live prey to your snake can give it the opportunity to bite and scratch your snake, which can lead to infections and permanent damage (eyes/scarring). Some people will disagree and say that it's perfectly safe as long as you're keeping a close watch on it, but there is always still the chance that the snake could miss its mark and give the mouse/rat the chance to bite, though this might be a small risk, it's much safer for your snake not to take this risk. If you find it refusing its pre-killed prey, there are many methods you can try before adverting to feeding live, there are lots of resources that you can find on this topic, and if you need to I can link you some. F/T (Frozen/Thawed) mice can be picked up from most pet stores, it's said you should ask for the freshes ones they have though. The best way to feed your Snake, is to actually breed your own mice and prekill them, and the safest way to do so is euthanizing the prey with CO2 gas which is the result of pouring water on dry ice, that will put the rodent to sleep (kill it) and is completely harmless to the snake because the little gas that may be present in the mouse after it dies will be gone shortly after it dies. The prey you should be feeding your snake should be as big as the snakes widest part of its body. You should wait 48 hours before handling the Snake after you've fed because it might cause it to regurgitate.

I don't think there will be any temperament difference between males and females, I'm sure there can be different arguments from both sides, but I have a male and the only times he'll attempt to bite is when he is scared. It might be possible that they will become more aggressive during mating season, but that won't be too much of a problem if you don't plan on breeding ( I have never bred, nor do I have plans to in the near future, so this is just a guess ).

You'll notice your ball's belly starting to turn a pinkish colour, that means it is beginning to shed, shortly after its eyes will begin to turn blue, and then a few days later things will clear up and a day or two after it will shed. It's recommended not to hold the Snake during this period because one for obvious reasons it may stress out the snake, and two they can become a bit nippy and try to bite because they can't see very well.

Sometimes things don't go so well and the snake will have a bad shed where it comes off in pieces, during this time you can soak your snake in some luke-warm water to loosen its shed up a bit, and then gently peel the shed back with a most facecloth. Be especially careful around the vent, because that's a sensitive area .

Lighting, most people say that Ball Pythons don't need any special types of lighting, so it's up to you if you want to get lights or not. It can help emulate the day-night cycle, but once again it's not necessary since Ball Pythons are nocturnal.

Well I think that pretty well covers it, I'm not sure if I'm missing anything, so let me know if you need anymore information. Hope I did alright

[deborahbroadus]

Thanks for the assist, Radical! Good advice. It would also help if you (haven't yet?) purchased a few ball python books (Ron's homepage) and browse though them...you too Radical, then you won't have to be dependent on what we say, but have your own resource to refer to when you give out advice.

Trust me, the books do not cover every eventuality...no WAY.

[eletness]

Awesome-thanks everyone, thank you Radical! I am pleased with all the responses in such little time. Pleased that there is more encouragement to "do it right" vs. "don’t do it at all". I am very glad to have this resource and will look into the literature that you have recommended.

What happens when he does strike you, are you seriously injured? Does it ever make you lose your confidence when handling in the future? Is this always going to be the case that he tries to strike, or coil in casual settings, even as a mature snake? Will he become used to things and get to know you and the routine? Do they know they're human vs. a visitor or stranger? What about the dog, not that we would have a party all together on the floor, but has anyone had any incidences with their ball and other household pets?. I have read to feed in a separate enclosure so the snake doesn’t ever mistake hand for prey, and to help tame? Is this a common practice?

Ellen

[Radical]

Well the only time he actually struck and hit me was a couple days after I got him when I tried feeding him. He bit ahold of my middle finger and coiled around my whole hand, it was like really tiny needs, not enough to make me cry out in pain but enough so I felt it. But it was basically like a few pin pricks in the finger, and it 100% did not discourage me from handling him. Like I said, the other times that he struck at me it was totally because I went too quickly when I was picking him up or made him nervous by making sudden movements, not the snake acting in an agressive way.

So no, there were no bad injuries, a little bit of blood but once I washed it away it stopped bleeding.

99% of the time I feel very safe when I'm picking him up out of the cage.

However tapping on the glass will get the snake's attention and will usually make him strike at the glass, which is not a good thing because if they could break a tooth which could lead to stomatitis (mouth rot).

Honestly I wouldn't recommend having the snake around any household pets, not only for the risk of having the snake get afraid and strike at it, but the household pet might as well bite back and kill the snake. A person at the pet store said he used to own a python, and it got out of it's cage and his dog killed it, so you're better off keeping them seperate.

And yes, you should have a box or container set aside for the snake when you're feeding, and leave him in there for a little while after he's finished swallowing. This will help the snake differentiate between when it's feeding time and when it's casual handling, and should trigger a better feeding response.


Here is a picture of the snake eating a mouse, and you can actually tell how tiny his teeth are, so getting bitten isn't a fatal thing, and should only help you learn how to handle your snake more responsibly

[mleaster]

Fst and foremost Welcome to the forum. You came to the right place. As you can see I am new as of July.
1. Buy the Complete Ball Python Manual. Book about care of Ball Pythons. It is a very good guide.
2. Ask any question and somehow it always gets answered one way or another. There are 1st timers and there are pros here on this forum.
Here is a link to the book.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/explorer/1882770722/2/ref=pd_lpo_ase/002-2649154-2193646?

[deborahbroadus]

Awesome pic Radical! Very helpful!

On the feeding tip, while Radical is correct, there are also other options. Some of us feed them in their cages and still it does not create a feeding response when I stick my hand in to pick them up.

Partly because I do it the correct way from the back and partly because I never have the smell of their prey on me. In fact, I usually have perfume on me and while it's not a scientific fact...it could have taught them to differentate that way...(just an opinion) and my heat signature is different from the prey, and I don't let them get THAT hungry. However you chose to feed, if you follow the few basic safety habits that Radical outlined..picking up from the back, making no sudden moves, you should be fine.

I haven't gotten tagged YET.

[lindsey_marshall00]

Well I am late on this one, not feeling to well lately. Anyhow, welcome Ellen to the crazy world of Balls. You will enjoy your stay here, and learn that this forum is addictive, even when you don't have a question you will be here looking for info.

[ted1025]

[deborahbroadus]

I said, "YET" ..that is not tempting the Gods. No bad luck will befall me, besides I am not supersitionous at all.

[Luke S. Tick]

Hi Ellen, thanks for joining us!

I'm gonna break a few rules, sorry everyone, but remember, ultimatly, these animals are our wards, so responsible care is the final goal, no matter how it's acheived.

I feed live, but never unattended.

If you look around on here there are some posts explaining the pros and cons of fresh vs. frozen. I just think of my preferences, t.v. dinner or fresh grilled. Fresh always wins in my book. Besides, my wife won't let me keep dead rodents in the freezer. Narrows my options a bit.

My biggest ball python eats medium size rats, and they can put up a good fight, so lately I've been giving them a good whack on a cinder block before I give them to her. Not for the squeemish. If I don't, my snake tends to shy away, and only eats every once in awhile. If they are subdued, she's more likely to eat. Dry ice has also been mentioned to use as a way to non-violently subdue rodents. There is a really great thread about it somewhere...

My smaller snakes still eat mice, one or two in a feeding, and they put up very little resistance. They are less nutritious than rat pups, but quicker to breed, so for the moment...

Eventually, I'll switch over to rats, I'm just in the middle of buying a house and don't need any new projects at the moment. I have enough for now.

I don't keep them in glass tanks. Instead, I use 28qt clear storage tubs for the smaller boids and a 44qt tub for the bigger snake. It's easier to control temps and humidity in the tubs and they are a lot lighter and easier to clean. Only downfall is that they are not on display (snakes). Oh well, I'm a wannabe breeder and that's how you can keep lots of animals without taking up tons of space. The tubs stack in a rack system with under tank heat for each, and all are wired with dimmers to control temps (switching to Jason's Jungle pvc enclosure with a thermostat after the move). Temps and humidity are monitered with a stylish little device made by Accu-Rite, called an Indoor/Outdoor thermometer/hygrometer. Sounds complex, but it isn't. Just reads temp and humidity with the main body and reads the remote temp with the probe. I mount the body of the unit to a wall INSIDE the tubs, on the cool side, run the remote probe through a vent hole and back into the warm side of the tank, right over the under tank heater.

Wal-Mart sells these for $12 a piece.

I have never been bitten, or even stiked at, but I'm very careful to not surprise my snakes, smell like food, or handle them while shedding.

I feed them in their own enclosures most of the time, unless I need to change the old newspaper out of the tank (then I have a huge tub I use to hold and feed them). Most newspaper publishers have endrolls for sale cheap, and it's not got the ink on it (though most newsprint ink is soy based and totally harmless). Despite a few rodent turds I clean up while they're swallowing, it's just easier than getting them out of one tub into another.

Ball pythons are di-urnal (close enough on the spelling) which means that they are most active at dawn and dusk. They don't need light to make vitamins like some other reptiles, so lighting is up to you, and certainly not required. Mine are happy with very little light, and actually feed more quickly in low light conditions. I feel like they 'see' the heat of their prey more easily that way, and seem to lock on and strike with better accuracy in almost dark. It's how they're built, so why mess with a good thing, right? Besides, if it were up to them, I'm sure they would be hiding from light if they could.

Again, welcome Ellen, and happy herping.

Luke

[snakefreak]

Hi Ellen, Welcome to the forum.