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Shorty
Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Truckee, CA
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 Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:43 am Post subject: Gah, still?! |
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Well as you might know, I took Irwin to the vet a week and a half ago and the vet said he might have an RI so he put him on some medication.
I have been giving Irwin his shots, one every three days, and when I took him out tonight, I heard that slight puff of air breathing sounds again! If this is indeed an RI, how long does it take to see if the medication is working?
Or is this even or RI, or just a noise he's making? The vet checked his mouth and everything was totally clear.
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jb.t3ch
Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 572
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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if all you're hearing is a puff of air or hiss sound, ball pythons do that as a defense mechanism. if you're not noticing any other signs of an RI that accompany the noise you're hearing it may just be him huffing and puffing.. my snakes huffs at me every time i go in there and pick him up.
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SheilaR
Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 194
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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mine too  i just show her more love and she calms down
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Shorty
Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Truckee, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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But he does it so randomly. I'm just be holding him and he makes that noise.
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deborahbroadus
Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 6873
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Shorty wrote: | | But he does it so randomly. I'm just be holding him and he makes that noise. |
There's your answer. It's random (if it were an RI it would be consistent), and he does it when you are holding him.
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 532
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:20 am Post subject: |
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I see a number of things that could bear discussion in this thread....
For starters, I'm curious how people can be even reasonably sure that there is nothing going on based on a such a vague description.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying one way or the other...
Then, there is the whole "RI" thing. It is probably fairly common knowledge by now that I feel that the term is tossed around entirely too much; and often by people that don't have the experience or judgement to know any better (not everyone gets that out...some people that should know better still do it). Just because a snake is showing respiratory symptoms does not mean there is an infection - which is, after all, what the I stands for. Symptoms can be caused by a variety of husbandry issues, and left uncorrected for sufficient time, can result in an infection...but if they are husbandry based issues, they can usually be cured by correcting the problems.
Of course, then there is the vet. Does he have much snake experience? As a rule, I don't like to contradict a veterinarian that has actually examined an animal...and since nothing seems blatantly inappropriate, I will just ask what medication he gave you. (I took a quick look at some of your other posts, and see that there were 5 doses)
How long has the snake been making this noise?
Ahhh - I guess my part ends here...duty calls.
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a_green
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 664
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:12 am Post subject: |
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I don't think any of us here can know anything without examining the animal AND having relevant experience in the field, so let's give the vet the benefit of the doubt for the moment (to be honest HH, you sounded rather condescending just then--that might decrease the chances of any advice you might give going over so well). But as for finding out if the vet is well experienced with herps, I'm with you--to say he "might" have an RI and give out medication doesn't sound too great to me... but I really don't know much about it.
Shorty, I think your question would be best directed to the vet--since he's the one who gave you the medication!
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 532
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:27 am Post subject: |
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I'm guessing you were referring to the term contradict?
In this case, perhaps second guess might have been a better phrase...but (in general) even if what is being reported after the appointment sounds flat out wrong, I don't like to contradict a vet that has examined the animal. They are the ones with the formal education, and the best access to current information...and they are the ones that have actually seen the animal.
As far as whether my advice goes over - in this case, I wasn't giving any. As far as I am concerned, this animal is under a vet's care, and the owner should follow the advice & treatment plan they were given.
If it was something else about my post that seemed "condescending", maybe it was somewhat...or not. It's kind of hard to say without knowing to what you are referring.
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Shorty
Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Truckee, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:05 am Post subject: |
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If he's still making the noise, I'll call the vet and see what he says.
I did the best the I could to find a vet that would see snakes, I don't feel like getting scolded when I actually took some steps to get my snake better. Better then most can say.
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hhmoore
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 532
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| Shorty wrote: | If he's still making the noise, I'll call the vet and see what he says.
I did the best the I could to find a vet that would see snakes, I don't feel like getting scolded when I actually took some steps to get my snake better. Better then most can say. |
Shorty...I hope you didn't take anything in my post as "scolding" you, as it certainly wasn't intended that way. I also didn't really see anything posted by anybody else that could be construed in that manner (so I'll accept that it was something I wrote).
My question about your vet's experience with snakes was simply an effort to see if you were in good hands, so to speak. An "exotic animal vet" does not necessarily imply that he knows a lot about reptiles, and I have heard some flat out bad information/advice reported as coming from so-called exotics specialists. Not everybody is lucky enough to have a good reptile vet within reasonable driving distance. Sometimes we have to make do with what is available.
I asked what medications he gave you (and how long the snake has been making these noises), not to be critical, but to get a feel for what he was "treating". A common assumption might be that it was an antibiotic, and some might go on to guess Amikacin, based solely on the frequency of administration...but I don't like to assume or guess, when simply asking should give me the information.
At a week and a half, depending on how rough an estimate that is, you could have used as few as 3 of the shots or completed the full treatment. Not knowing what the medication is, or how much of it has been given, its kind of hard to tell you if it should have worked by now (or even what it was supposed to do). As for whether it really is an RI, it is a normal sound, or it might be something else...<shrugs> I know I can't say based upon what I have seen in this thread. I did take a quick look at some of your other posts, but I didn't feel compelled to try to read through them all to pull out pertinent pieces of information. Maybe some of the other posters are more familiar with the situation, and have been following your progress - if so, they might be in a better position to comment...or not.
Best of luck with your snake.......
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jb.t3ch
Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 572
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| hhmoore wrote: | I see a number of things that could bear discussion in this thread....
For starters, I'm curious how people can be even reasonably sure that there is nothing going on based on a such a vague description.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying one way or the other... |
I'm not reasonably sure about anything with someone elses description that they heard a "noise". I'm simply stating both sides of the spectrum. If it is an RI then they have taken the proper care in seeking a vet.
If it is just air or the bp huffing then no antibiotic will cure this. I was kinda following along the lines of what if this vet is an exotic but has limited experience. I would hate to see antibiotics administered continually trying to cure something that may not be present and eventually making the snakes immune system worse.
I will agree a lot of a ball pythons issues can be cured with perfect husbandry including but not limited too clean atmosphere, dry substrate, warm and cool side temps, good humidity range, clean water, low stress, time for digestion after feeding, and im sure a ton of other things I overlooked.
I wont try and diagnose any bp problems nor will I ever claim that I know more than I do. I will however suggest possibilities but as was stated we know nothing about what kind of noise the bp is making, how long its been happening, or if any other symptoms are present.
I do think that with the knowledge that they may or may not have the owner did the correct thing. He was concerned and sought professional advice.
Good luck with your bp. I hope all is well, shorty.
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deborahbroadus
Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 6873
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:49 am Post subject: |
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HHMORE: | Quote: | | but I don't like to assume or guess, when simply asking should give me the information. |
In this case, I agree with Harald. I did not read anything condescending in the post. I also did not read it as a "scold" to the op, but a scold to those of us that simply give advice without knowing the particulars and he is right. I have tried since day one to encourage our members and mods to ask questions, get pictures, try and get a feel of what is happening, before saying anything.
We are improving, but we still have a long way to go. I also am guilty, but in this case she said that the VET gave it a clean bill of health and since I am not a Vet, I did give the Vet the benefit of a doubt because if he actually said those words, and the animal dies later, or suffers complications (that is if the op actually has the environment correct) then he can be sued. Therefore, having more at risk in this case my advice was that since it's an occasional noise that is made when "holding the snake" it could be just be the noise he makes (some have said) when being held.
I actually am leery of answering posts of those that have seen a Vet. I have seen a tendency of some to try and repeat the scene that was enacted recently (someone said that their Vet had been insulted). I do not encourage the forum to give advice to members that are under a Vet's care. When someone has not seen a vet yet, and wants to know if the "noise," "wheezing," or "mucus" is a sign of R.I. Then the best advice once can give is "Yes, usually. Please see a Vet for a better diagnose."
In this case, it would be the mucus that was the deciding factor (for me).
Another scenario would be, "noise," "wheezing," "contortions." In this case, I may ask about the environment (the mucus is absent). All advice given here are "educated" guesses based on commonly understood ailments and causes.
I hate to be the forum police, but it's my job. So, please, in the future, if anyone doesn't like the tone of a poster's comment, please send a pm to the mods. There is a rule about "backseat" modding. There is no reason to jump and infer an "intention" where there may be none. Direct all posts towards the OP's situation. I encourage all of our members to invite anyone with whom they may want to discuss their post "intentions" into Chat, so that the boards do not become cluttered with arguments.
Thanks.
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Shorty
Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 49
Location: Truckee, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, 10 hours of work and insomnia makes Shorty a bit cranky.
I got the name of the medication, its called Ceftax. They had them prefilled for me to give to my snake, up to the 10 line. (Sorry, I'm not good with numbers I don't know how much that is) I inject in into the muscle once every three days. He has his second to last shot today.
The only thing I can think of that would cause an RI is his ambient temps. My roommate at the time kept the AC on about 68 and he is in a glass tank with two UTHs. The air temp might have gotten down too low. I watch his temps for the warm and cool side like a hawk. Alway 81 cool and 91-92 warm.
I can't really get more details at the time, but as someone said, I was doing the best with what I had. My college town is very small and I spent the better part of a day trying to contact someone who would see Irwin, and this vet was the only one I came up with. I'm at home now and debating whether to see if there are any other vets here in my home area. But once again, I live in a mountain town and we're lucky to have a grocery store.
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deborahbroadus
Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 6873
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| Shorty wrote: | Sorry, 10 hours of work and insomnia makes Shorty a bit cranky.
I got the name of the medication, its called Ceftax. They had them prefilled for me to give to my snake, up to the 10 line. (Sorry, I'm not good with numbers I don't know how much that is) I inject in into the muscle once every three days. He has his second to last shot today.
The only thing I can think of that would cause an RI is his ambient temps. My roommate at the time kept the AC on about 68 and he is in a glass tank with two UTHs. The air temp might have gotten down too low. I watch his temps for the warm and cool side like a hawk. Alway 81 cool and 91-92 warm.
I can't really get more details at the time, but as someone said, I was doing the best with what I had. My college town is very small and I spent the better part of a day trying to contact someone who would see Irwin, and this vet was the only one I came up with. I'm at home now and debating whether to see if there are any other vets here in my home area. But once again, I live in a mountain town and we're lucky to have a grocery store. |
We understand, and no one was scolding you (i didn't read it that way). I would suggest that when the Vet treats your animal you pick his brains till you know exactly what he's doing, and for how long, and how long it will be before you see results.
It might also be a good idea to ask him, if the R.I is bacterial or viral, what kind of RI (a name) and how does his prescribed treatment work. In other words, educate yourself, you are paying this man to treat your snake, but his treatment can only go so far as what you understand.
Harald had spoken to me about the shelf life of your meds. It is really imperative that you make sure that your Vet takes the time to make sure that YOU understand what is going on.
Hope this helped. 
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