RCReptiles.com

[junkopardner]

Just got a ball python about 10-11 months old, maybe around 13 inches. Got him home into a 29 gallon tank with Aspen bedding, a hide and water dish.

A guy at Petsmart said that an UTH wasn't exactly necessary so we went with 150 watt basking bulb for day and 100 watt infrared for night, OPPOSITE where his hide is (where he like to spend his time). Figuring, of course, that this would be enough "ambient temperature to keep the cool side around 80 without that need for an UTH.

Any advice on this setup?

Thanks-

Jonathan

[arlynos]

Well maybe a picture of the setup would help a little bit, and the only thing is that depending on how long the tank it you may want to go with UTH's accross the bottem that way you have a better heating curve in the enclosure, and also the uth's are better for digestion for the snake.

Also welcome to the forums.

[Herphero]

13inches at 10-11 months? Mine is 3ft at 11months lol. You got a dwarf!

[arlynos]

Mine is 17 inches at about 4 months and growing, I dont want it to get to big to fast lol the fiancee is kinda scared of it as it is. But yea suggestion is the uth's and if need be supplement with over the head lamps.

[junkopardner]

Thanks for all the responses. I'm just trying to get everything right for him, because I want him to be comfortable and healthy.

As for the size/age, I don't exactly know. I bought him from a local, independantly owned pet store and I don't think they knew. He was in a tiny tank with nothing, hiding under the green felt lining. It was a rescue mission of sorts. We fell in love with him. I thought the lady working there said he was 10 months but I don't know, and I also haven't measured him yet and it's hard for me to size him up by eye because he is always curled up.

He's over a foot, I'm sure. As for the age....who knows. What I'm more worried about now is tank setup. I personally don't see why UTH's are necessary in all situations. I'm sure there are some situations where it is important but maybe not all.

I've had friends who have had boa's etc. and not all had UTH's. To my memory (and this has been awhile), UTH's are supposed to raise the temp on the "cool side" to an average of 5-10 degrees above room temperature with standard conditions. But the ambient heat from the "basking side" of the tank can often keep the temp fine for the cool side (around 80 degrees or so). We'll see I guess.

I've included some pictures of the current setup. His hide is on the right (your left) with his water dish on the left. I've put his basking light over the left side (over his dish). The daytime basking bulb is 150 watt and at night I will start using a 100 watt infrared bulb. It is my understanding that Ball Pythons don't see the red so for all practical purposes it's night time to them. The reason I went with 100 watt for night is obviously because they can go down to 75 degrees or so at night.

I don't know what the temps will be for a day or so, but I have a thermometer at the top on the left side (basking/water dish side) next to a hygrometer. Another thermometer on the bottom on the right side (hide/cool side). I'd like to keep hide/cool side 75/80, and basking/water dish side around 90. The problem with the basing/water dish side is that the thermometer is at the top (under the lamp), so it's going to read hotter than it should because it's at the top and under the light, as opposed to at the bottom where he'll be.

Also, I don't know if the tank is too big. It's a 30 gallon and I've heard smaller snake/smaller tank and upgrade as they grow because smaller snakes in bigger tanks feel vulnerable/stressed. The dimensions of the 30 gallon tank I have him in is roughly 29" long, 12" wide and 18" deep.

Anyway, let me know what you think and I'll keep you posted.

Thanks to everyone for the help. He's our baby and he appreciates it too I'm sure.

[arlynos]

well you need another hide at least for your BP, and I would suggest some decorations as well, like logs and fake plants they hate open spaces and will love you more, what kind of substrate are you using?

[junkopardner]

Using Aspen for the bedding. I like it, he likes it.....

I will get another hide though, but I need some suggestions. What about a "water hide", to help him feel safe so he can soak longer to help with shedding?

How do I make a good water hide? I don't just want to slap another cave in there. I want to mix it up so he'll have options.

Is a water hide a good idea, and if so how do I do it?

Thanks so much-

J

[arlynos]

a water hide is a good idea, but you may want to do a humidy retreat with peat moss in it instead of the water hide because of the issue with scale rot and peat moss is a lot easier to clean out then water if he defecates in it, also you will want to cover most of the sides with black paper like aquarium paper reversed just to make him feel more secure and I got a UTH and it was a great investment that way you heat the underbelly to aid in digestion.

Here is a pic of my enclosure, though not done yet, need the plants and retreat for her, I am thinking of going with sea sponges for more humidity later on, but I dont know yet.

[junkopardner]

How do I build a humidy retreat? I've heard of these but don't know how to build one.

Also, it looks like you have a big tank (mines a 30 gallon for a little baby).

How old/big is your snake and how big is your tank?

I plan to buy some cheap plastic vines etc from a craft store and a fake tree climb or something.

A humidity hide would be great but I just don't know where to start but I want to try and stay away from UTH's because I still am not convinced that they're absolutely necessary. Heat and water raises humidity (as well as a spray bottle) so I plan on getting him a big water dish, and with the basking area above it that will release a lot of humidity and I could potentially place his humidity hide next to that, ensuring plenty of humidity.

I don't know, but I'm just not sold on UTH's. I've had friends with huge boas that thought they were just a waste.

Thanks for showing your setup.

J

[arlynos]

my tank is a 20l tank and my snake is 17 inches long so she is getting bigger by the day, well you can make one out of a tupperware dish with a locking lid you cut a hole in the side of the dish and then light the cut side with duct tape and then line it with peat moss and when you clean your tank or when needed you can take the moss and rewet and then put it back in the retreat and back in the cage. UTH are better for there digestion not for heat, but over the cage heaters are not a bad supplement, but you will find more people reccomend UTH's because of the uniform heating they provide.

[junkopardner]

Aren't UTH's just glorified heating pads though?

I plan to feed him in a separate tank with a big heating pad underneath it with no basking light or anything in it (the feeding tank is about 10 gallons).

If they're just mainly for digestion, then he'll have essentially the same thing under his feeding tank with the heating pad, no?


J

[Buck_99]

Humid hide instructions: http://www.stoplightcityleopardgeckos.com/makingahumidhide.htm

Yes, UTH's are "glorified heating pads," but I've used a standard pharmacy heating pad beneath a glass tank before with great success. You still need to connect it to a thermostat. Belly heat is good for ball pythons, and although I don't know what the needs of your friend's boas are, ball pythons are not boas. Under belly heating is good. Consider in nature that they spend all day in termite mounds and other holes in the ground. Then they come out at night. Their warmth comes directly from their substrate, 'round the clock.

[deborahbroadus]

Time is short, so I am going to get right to the point: Some items in the tank such as decoration are up to the owner. Such as motif of the back of the tank, branches for climbing, pretty plants (fake).

Some items are basic:

Heat
Humidity
Security

These are necessities that are needed for the health of the animal, they aren't actually options.

Underbelly head is necessary because BPs need heat on their bellies to help digest. Without this, they may not eat, or begin a cycle of regurging if they are unable to digest their prey.

Humidity is a MUST (a water bowl for drinking and submerging him/herself is fine) a humid hide has been a life saver to many. A water hide primarily to stay in isn't such a good idea because of the scale complications that can result. Without a humid hide we submit our animals to hours/minutes of stress helping them to shed while nature can do a better job if we only give him the tools he needs.

And finally security. If the animal doesn't feel secure, it may not eat (each BP is different) but from the way yours is crouched down, I would suggest as many hides as your tank will hold until it adjusts and is eating regularly and has put on some weight. We can often tell what our animal needs if we pay attention to the body language of the animal.

Hope this clarified a few things and helps you make informed decisions.
p.s. BP's are nocturinal, they do not like lights such as the one on top of your tank shining on them. They prefer the darkness. There are lights forumulated for them that allows us to see them in their beauty while not disturbing or stressing them. Please make use of the boards and as always...we are here to answer questions.

[junkopardner]

Thanks to all again for your replies.

I think I'm suffering from information overload. :-O

I've read A LOT in these forums, and books, articles, etc and I think I fried my brain. The basic setup seems so simple but then when you get to reading it seems much more complex with talk of thermostats, back-up thermostats, probes, etc.

I have a couple decent thermometers in there (one on each side) and it seems the temps are always about 85 on the hot side and 75 on the cool side. I checked it last night several times (I put in a 100 watt infrared bulb at night) and his hide was fine at around 75 with the area under the bulb around 83 or so. The humidity is about 45% but that's just ambient as I haven't added any yet.

So, my next move is a UTH which I plan to keep on the "hot" side, a humidity hide for the hot side, some fake greenery and maybe a fake tree and a big, heavy water dish.

As for the bright 150 watt bulb I use during the day (that you mentioned from the picture), it was my understanding that this was necessary to let him know it was daytime and then the infrared to let him know it's night.

Sometimes during the day he'll come out of his hide and curl up by his water dish under the bright light (I assume to bask?), like you see him doing in the picture. I assume he does this when he wants more heat.

But as far as what I mentioned in my next step, does that sound pretty inclusive?

Thanks all-

J

[ryancbj22]

My two cents would be you need the following!

1. Tank
2. Substrate
3. Two Hides one cool side one hot side.
4. Water dish big enough to soak in
5. Digital thermometers (home depot $15 accurite measures cool side hot side and humidity.)
6. Under Tank Heater to cover a third of the tank.
7. THERMOSTAT........
8. I use a flurecent bulb on a timer during the day no heat is emitted but it's not needed. Just an added bonus of the tank I bought.
9. Your Snake one per tank.....

If you get a uth place the water dish directly over it and this will raise humidity. Place a damp towel over the top of the tank to keep some of the moisture in. If your humidity is in the 50's or 60's then you shouldn't need a humid hide. I made the diy humidifier from the 2litre bottle it's on the forum here somewhere it was simple to make and my humidity is now steady in the 50's. I had to do this because my tank is a lot larger than most it's 4ft long and about 2feet high.