Banana Ball
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deborahbroadus
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:14 am    Post subject: Banana Ball Reply with quote


What are the genetics of the Banana Ball? I saw one on another forum and I am absolutely fascinated! I want! I want! But I'll have to breed, that's to rich even for my blood, I would have to take out another mortgage on the house! Laughing


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RonCrawford
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know, they're not for sale right now. I think he's going to sell females only for $100,000+. I'm in line for one myself. :wink:


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deborahbroadus
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to know what snakes I need to make my own. lol


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RonCrawford
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deborahbroadus wrote:
I want to know what snakes I need to make my own. lol


Nothing makes the banana ball meaning it's not a combo morph.


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deborahbroadus
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question Question ((Confused)) Then it's an accident? It can't be planned? What two Balls were bred? What's the genetics? Two normals? Pastel and Stripe?

If it's not a combo morph, why get one if it can't make more? Inquiring minds want to know.


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Jordan700



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you post a link of the site where you saw it?

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deborahbroadus
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RC, do you have a picture?

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RonCrawford
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deborahbroadus wrote:
RC, do you have a picture?



It's a co-dom animals like the Mojave, Lesser Platinum, Pastel, etc. so you can't "create one" so to speak like you can with ball python morph combos (spider x pastel = bumblebee; pastel x cinnamon = pewter; etc).

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deborahbroadus
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:( :( Cant create? I have to have one by accident? I am not intentionally being dense. Embarassed

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Jordan700



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW! 8) . Thanks Ron

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RonCrawford
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

deborahbroadus wrote:
:( :( Cant create? I have to have one by accident? I am not intentionally being dense. Embarassed


The more I think about it, it's probable that you could hatch out some brand new morph by breeding ball pythons together. I don't know the statistics of actually doing this but I would think it would be possible because "morphs" are the result of a mutated gene. I would think that the original Piebald for example, came from normal looking parents that did not posess any genes for piebaldism. The first Pied morph was probably the result of a genetic mutation (caused by what, I have no clue) that caused this strange looking animal to appear. It mated with a normal ball python and in turn was able to spread its mutated gene. The babies would be het Piebald of course and could possibly create more Pieds if the babies somehow bred with each other.

I'm not sure how far ball pythons travel in the wild but I'll venture out to say (with no scientific backing mind you) that they don't travel too far. I say this because Ball Pythons are generally concentrated in certain areas of Africa only. The more I think about this the more fascinating it becomes to me.

I know a gentleman in Japan who has an advanced degree in genetics. I'll send him an email shortly and ask him to join in this thread discussion. I too would like to learn more about "how" the original morphs might have occured and the "conditions" that could have created such morphs.

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Eiji



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for inviting me this forum.
Wow! The banana ball is so beautiful. How is it look like in the homozygous banana (super-banana)!

In my opinion, almost all ball morph (mutation) were derived from natural spontaneous mutation occurred in wild, and no or very rare new mutation occurred in CB condition.

When thinking about origin of mutations, the two inheritance statuses, recessive and dominant(including co-dominant) should be separated. If a dominant (or co-dominant) mutation occurred in wild, it is soon picked up as new mutation otherwise they eliminated by their strange colors in wild. So these dominant mutations have recent origin.

In the case of recessive mutations, almost all founder mutations such as piebald occurred as heterozygous status (looks normal) and it may not have recent origin. To visualize this new mutation, it has to be combined as homozygous. In some case, siblings of a heterozygous animal lived in the same pit produce homozygous progeny. In another case, homozygous animal was produce from a wild-collected, heterozygous animal in sib-mating CB condition.

In the piebaldism balls, several animals had been found in Africa. There is two explanations: a founder piebald mutation was spread in wild and accidentally produced homozygous animals or independent mutations occurred in piebold gene since it has a flexible structure such as repetitive sequences (this is well known in muscular dystrophy disease).

Because the spontaneous mutation rate is extremely low, it may be possible to create a new morph in CB condition using mutagenic agents such as chemicals and X-ray. However, it also induces damages to other important genes as well as color genes, and resultant mutations cause weak of lethal animals. Especially this method is not applicable to balls because of the small clutch size.

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deborahbroadus
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eiji wrote:
Thank you for inviting me this forum.
Wow! The banana ball is so beautiful. How is it look like in the homozygous banana (super-banana)!

In my opinion, almost all ball morph (mutation) were derived from natural spontaneous mutation occurred in wild, and no or very rare new mutation occurred in CB condition.

When thinking about origin of mutations, the two inheritance statuses, recessive and dominant(including co-dominant) should be separated. If a dominant (or co-dominant) mutation occurred in wild, it is soon picked up as new mutation otherwise they eliminated by their strange colors in wild. So these dominant mutations have recent origin.
In the case of recessive mutations, almost all founder mutations such as piebald occurred as heterozygous status (looks normal) and it may not have recent origin. To visualize this new mutation, it has to be combined as homozygous. In some case, siblings of a heterozygous animal lived in the same pit produce homozygous progeny. In another case, homozygous animal was produce from a wild-collected, heterozygous animal in sib-mating CB condition.

In the piebaldism balls, several animals had been found in Africa. There is two explanations: a founder piebald mutation was spread in wild and accidentally produced homozygous animals or independent mutations occurred in piebold gene since it has a flexible structure such as repetitive sequences (this is well known in muscular dystrophy disease).

Because the spontaneous mutation rate is extremely low, it may be possible to create a new morph in CB condition using mutagenic agents such as chemicals and X-ray. However, it also induces damages to other important genes as well as color genes, and resultant mutations cause weak of lethal animals. Especially this method is not applicable to balls because of the small clutch size.
So you are saying: That because of the need for camouflage in the wild, those with the dom/comdom genes and their offspring were soon eliminated because they lacked the ability to blend in. The recessives, mostly continued unless their gene paired with another (in which case, the visible carrier would also soon be eliminated). It is only under the stable conditions that man has created, that these morphs have been allowed to breed and pass on their genes to their offspring. Therefore, it is possible that there are MORE colors that haven't been discovered yet and the source is still a mine of untapped riches!?? Laughing Shocked Laughing

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Jordan700



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have heard that it is not just a large supply of riches, but an unlimited supply!!!!!!!! Very Happy

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deborahbroadus
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jordan700 wrote:
I have heard that it is not just a large supply of riches, but an unlimited supply!!!!!!!! Very Happy


I want to discover a Morph!! LOL You know what they say about beginner's luck! Laughing

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