RCReptiles.com

[junkopardner]

Ph.D's are overrated. I saw a guy on Discovery channel the other day working on getting his Ph.D. in herpetology, and he'll get it too, but he didn't know the first thing about herpetoculture. A red-tailed boa escaped from him in the bathroom because he didn't take any precautions against it getting out of an ordinary sink. He also expressed amazement at the "coincidence" of so many of the boas he had captured shedding at the same time. Mrs. 99 and I were laughing out loud, because anyone who has kept more than one snake for an extended period knows that stress is one of the things that will make a snake shed. This guy saw coincidence, when in fact he was witnessing the effect of his actions. This is a herpetologist.

Buck, c'mon man. This is weak. Everyone knows that there are many different fields within Herpetology that don't deal with specific species of reptiles. Take for instance Dr. Stanley F. Fox at Oklahoma State University (the Herpetologist who referred me to Day). He knew very little about Ball Pythons and husbandry, as that's not even his field. He works in Eco Science. The reason he referred me to Day is because he said he had been a breeder (maybe still is, I didn't ask) of Ball Pythons and knew a lot about husbandry, on top of being a Herpetologist that specialized in that field; snakes!

Do you know what this Herpetologists specialty was even in?

As to veterinarians, I can only say that vets will give their opinions but they're not always experts either. I've become discouraged because I've found myself educating my vet on some aspects of python ownership. If something goes terribly wrong I'll have to travel out of town to a different vet who my own vet considers an expert.

So, let's see. Herpetologists that have PhD's and specialize in the field of snakes are no good, herp vets that specialize in exotics are no good, but Buck; Good.

Did I get that correct?

[Buck_99]

[ryancbj22]

I agree who's to say that every vet or every herpetologists has the same skill level or knowledge with snakes as the next one. I'm sure there are plenty of herpetologists that have phd's and have never owned or associated themselves with any kind of snake. They may have a general knowledge of snake's, but not a specific species of snakes. As we all know different specie's of snake's require different enviornment's and so on. I can speak for myself I have always had an interest in snake's and thought I had a pretty good understanding of things until I decided to purchase one and before purchasing one I did hour's upon hour's of research and I couldn't beleive what I didn't know. I learned an incredible amount of care of bp's from just reading this site alone before ever even posting a question.

I'm not an expert by any means but there are some things that just can't be over looked. My theory on herps and vet's is if your in a situation where you own an animal and your having issues or problems with that animal your more prone to accept advice from anyone who is willing to give it as long as they have some genaral knowledge of the specific animal in question. I'm not saying people get desperate but I guess you could go that route. How much reasearch have you done on the vet or herpetologists that you have spoken with. How do you know there the most capable of answering your question's. How do you there not just giving you there general knowledge in an answer that may sound good at the time. I'm not putting down the people you have talked to nor am I saying they don't have the proper knowledge to answer your question's, but how do YOU know they have that knowledge to answer your question's.

[junkopardner]

his tread has become a flame thread bashing eachother not just by you but by us too and seems to be going no where.

Oh, it'll continue to go nowhere as long as you foolishly cling to the idea that it's a terrible, dangerous thing to house two BP's together. It isn't.

They're communally housed very successfully in Zoo's all over the country for many, many years. If fact, the oldest recorded Ball Python came from a Zoo.


you say you have proof? show it and state it or give up. there has been a lot of talk by you with showing no truth but by going off on how a newbie said they were stressed when seperated. i asked for the proof and have yet to see it. when asked for the numbers of these people you still wont give them, and you state that im trying to disprove you. This doesnt nothing but further my beliefs. i have a vet that is the largest in the area and tends to more species of animals than any around, yet if i bring up snakes he knows only general aspects of how they should be taken care of. being busy has nothing to do with it, i will wait for a call back because no matter how busy they are they always have time to talk even if its at 10 pm.

Sorry Nick, you ain't getting my vets name and number no matter how you try manipulate the situation by trying to place the onus of proof on me. It is a WIDELY know fact in the professional community (as well as private owners) that housing more than one BP per enclosure if perfectly fine if the guidelines are followed. It's a FACT, Nick. You and some of your misinformed cronies on this site are in the vast minority about the "dangers" of communal housing. So the onus of proving ME wrong is on you guys.

I'm calling you misinformed according to scientific facts, I'm saying you're wrong because there is no evidence that supports increased risk in housing more than one together if done correctly. And you're giving ADVICE to a newbie based on unsubstantiated fear mongering that has no basis in fact and then you accuse me of giving bad advice and having to "educate" me. (the irony).

Prove that I'm wrong, because when it comes to increased risk of housing two together, you are COMPLETELY in the minority here. I'm in the majority on this. (Not on this site, but when it comes to the "real facts").

As for YOUR vet, does he specialize "exclusively" in exotics? I would highly, highly doubt it.

One last question, EVEN if I gave you Day's number and you spoke to him, and he answered all your questions and told you everything that he told me, what would that change anything? And if so, what specifically?

Would you be willing to get back on here and tell everyone that you were completely ignorant on the subject of communal housing Ball Pythons, for instance?

J

[deborahbroadus]

[ryancbj22]

Also with such a limited amount of knowledge with snake's how do you determine who to accept knowledge/advice from and who not to. It seem's to me that the logical explanation would be to accept advice from some one who has year's and year's of experience with the specific species your speaking of. Not to mention that person or person's trial and error experience with the hundred's upon hundred's of snake's they've owned. The people on this forum are some of the most intelligent people I have ever talked too Deb,Nick,Buck,Ron,Py,Agreen and a lot more these people are not onky great when it come's to bp's, but they are extremely intelligent people in many other area's than just snake's. I applaud the people on this forum for the great information they provide to people everyday and we should all appreciate there knowledge and gratitude.

[NickMyers03]

yet you still state no facts! where are these facts? you say you are in the majority PLEASE post where your getting this information. Right now your just blowing air.

there are a few forums that have well over 5K members that state the same things we are... let me get approval to post a direct link for you so you can go on there and ask this question..i wonder how fast they will flame you LOL

[deborahbroadus]

[Buck_99]

[junkopardner]

Also with such a limited amount of knowledge with snake's how do you determine who to accept knowledge/advice from and who not to. It seem's to me that the logical explanation would be to accept advice from some one who has year's and year's of experience with the specific species your speaking of. Not to mention that person or person's trial and error experience with the hundred's upon hundred's of snake's they've owned. The people on this forum are some of the most intelligent people I have ever talked too Deb,Nick,Buck,Ron,Py,Agreen and a lot more these people are not onky great when it come's to bp's, but they are extremely intelligent people in many other area's than just snake's. I applaud the people on this forum for the great information they provide to people everyday and we should all appreciate there knowledge and gratitude.

Ryan, these are excellent questions.

So, how many Ball Pythons has anyone on this site housed together, and followed the correct procedures? And to those that have, have you experienced any wacky health problems, cannibalism, attacks etc?

How many have commuted them back and forth between two different enclosures continually? And if so, what happened?

Let the wisdom based on facts AND trial and error flow.....


J

[deborahbroadus]

[uncle_flo]

Let the wisdom based on facts AND trial and error flow.....

Great idea! Everyone who's willin to cough up a beloved pet to the Mad Scientist to answer this difficult scientific question, please raise your hands...

[NickMyers03]

[junkopardner]

Nick-

Send me the links to whatever. As for Day, call Stan and get Day's number. I ain't giving it to you. And in the future, do your own research. I'm calling you ignorant on the issue of communally housing BP's, and you don't even have the facts to disprove me, other than what's part and parcel of a lot of people on this thread "Because we said it is" "Look at the terrible pictures"....and you want me to give you what's commonly known? Go to Ron's Site and to the article on BP Troubleshooting; it's in there on this site too.

And always make sure your talking to a Herp Dr. who specializes in snakes, and knows a lot about BP's and Husbandry so I don't have to hear any more "Long time owners and Breeders know more than Herpetologists".

Contact Info:
Stanley F. Fox, foxstan@okway.okstate.edu
Department of Zoology, 430 LSW
Oklahoma State University
Stillwater Oklahoma 74078-3052
405-744-5555


Buck-


Let's examine this gem, shall we?

Premise 1: They're communally housed very successfully in Zoo's all over the country for many, many years [citation needed].
Premise 2: the oldest recorded Ball Python came from a Zoo.

Ergo, it's safe to house ball pythons together.


I didn't mean to draw a correlation; I was merely trying to kill two birds with one stone here. What I meant was that they ARE successfully communally housed in zoo's. And after making that statement I anticipated a bunch of non sense about zoos are evil and a poor example etc. So that's why I included that fact next, to show that obviously the zoo wasn't too bad for that snake.

No direct correlation was intended between premise one and two, my bad. But I'm typing A LOT more than any of you, because I'm taking on ALL of you, so, give me a break on every little nuance that isn't perfectly defined.

As for the citations, I've been to several across the country that did it. I'll check around and get you a list.

And yes, if you follow the procedures, it's safe to house more than one BP in an enclosure.


Flo-

I don't know ya, but you sure sound like somebody just a tryin to fit in on the old board! And if it weren't for "mad scientists" Flo, you would know very little about anything. In case you already know very little about everything, well..........

Deb-

Maybe the people that did those things with "bad" results were stupid, not that what they were doing was stupid, per se. That ever cross your mind? And my questions posted in that post still have remain unanswered.....

Nick-

Have you even followed this thread. I posted the requirements a thousand pages back, do you want me to RE-list them. How about you give me YOUR number and I'll call you up and read them to you so yu don't have to be bothered with straining your eyes. Sheeessshhhh.....

[uncle_flo]