RCReptiles.com

[markstockham]

For some reason I want to say that part of the reason relates to the fact that they are fairly fragile while young. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't true that you shouldn't even sex a GTP till its a year old? I also want to say that they can get spinal "breaks" or kinks from contact while they are young?
Not sure of anything I said is correct, I might just be regurgitating a bunch of sh....... wrong information.

[Buck_99]

Mark, you are correct.

According to Greg Maxwell's book, The More Complete Chondro, most breeders avoid handling the neonates until they're a year old for precisely that reason: they are so fragile, especially their tails, and spinal kinking is a serious risk. This is also why they aren't sexed until a year / 100g of weight (and one of the vets at the Stahl clinic refused to sex Elaine, and she was 400g at the time).


Maxwell makes the following points:

• Most CBB adults are calm animals and can be safely handled during the day.
  
• There are exceptions, notably Biaks.
  
• Some chondros are tame from an early age.
  
• Most tame down on their own between 12 and 18 months.
  
• Some specimens never tame down (which is why I won't buy one that hasn't already!).
  
• Most tolerate handling well but prefer to be left alone (like any other snake)
  
• Gradual exposure to human contact is widely reported to work. Maxwell doesn't make a habit of handling his own.
  
• One guy he knows touches neonates gently on their undersides while they're on their perches to accustom them to human contact.
  
• Neonates are, indeed, snappy.
  
• It is best to avoid handling them prior to a year of age regardless of their personality to avoid damaging the spine.
  
• Reptile shows are bad places to assess personality, because they're more stressed there than in their normal, more secure environment (says volumes about Lilly, who handled wonderfully at the Chantilly show, doesn't it Nick? Can I get a witness?!).
  

That's just from the book. Chapter 6, page 126, under the section Myth #1: "GTPs are irritable, snappy reptiles that can't be handled without danger of being bitten," to be precise. I'll post more info when the breeder gets back to me.

[markstockham]

Thanks for the detailed info Buck.

[PyMama]

Buck thank you so much for all that info....great resources....
I guess my thing isnt so much a fear ...its more of a how to....make transition from no touch to beginning handling and taming. A year is a long time ...wish the snakes could talk .

Again thanks for all the info....I have a lot of reading to do...its awaken my curiosity and love to learn more..

I might have more questions so watch out!

[Buck_99]

Ok everyone, the breeder got back in touch with me and she gave me enough information to write a book with. I'll try to organize it into little sections and bullet-point it to keep it short and sweet.

General Reputation:

• Some Biaks are very handleable, but many are not. Most are more nervous than other locality types.
  
• Biaks were the first imports, and continue to be the easiest to import, so there are alot of them out there in captivity.
  
• These two points may explain why GTP's in general have such a bad reputation.
  
• There is always individual variation within a type, but as a general rule, outside of the Biak type, GTP's tend to be relaxed and easily handled once off the perch (see "General Handling" section below).
  

Neonates/Hatchlings as Biters:

• Yes they are nippy when they're very young.
  
• This is a good thing. A nippy hatchling is easier to establish as a regular feeder.
  
• If a neonate tags you, it stings a little and bleeds a bit, but really isn't bad at all (and remember, GTP babies are much smaller than BP babies, so we're talking about something very tiny doing the biting). See "A few other notes" section below.
  

General Handling (chondros aged 1+ yrs.):

• Daytime is best: they're sleepy and not thinking about food.
  
• Try not to have the scent of prey on you. Don't handle them after you've been handling prey.
  
• Chondros feel most secure on their perches.
  
• Forcing them from their perches causes stress.
  
• Coax them gently off their perches. Most will let you do that.
  
• Once off the perch, most are fine (even Biaks: mine has never bitten or threatened to bite once off the perch. It just takes me twice as long to convince her to come off the perch! Rushing her is what causes the aggression, so I don't do that anymore. With her, some days I just give up and put her back in her tub. One time this worked out really well, because she shed the next day! I had no clue it was coming. Turns out the Biak knows best).
  

Ok, Py, here's what you've been waiting for...

How to Transition from Neonates (non-handling) to Yearlings (handling):

• While they're neonates, remove them from their tubs often to examine them, leaving them on the perch. They don't like this at first, but they gradually start to accept it.
  
• Do not remove them from the perch when they're little: the bite (if it comes) may sting a bit, but the damage you can do to their spines is worse.
  
• Gently cup them in your hand while they are on the perch. This gets them accustomed to human touch.
  
• Note that they are aware of you day and night when you are near them, so they are getting used to seeing humans all the time.
  
• When they're about a year old, encourage them to come off the perch and crawl around. The breeder has never had one bite her during this step.
  

Question: How do you "encourage them to come off the perch"?
Answer: Stay tuned, I'm making a "how to" video, because it's easier to show you than to explain it. This encouragement is necessary even with older specimens. It's similar to handling a ball python, though, in the sense that BP's aren't exactly thrilled when you lift up the hide and initiate contact, but once they're in your arms they're putty.

A few other notes:

• This breeder has had 40+ neonates over 5 years, and only 6 bites.
  
• She has seen bites from both GTP's and ball pythons, and both look about the same.
  
• Some neonates come out of the egg friendly, while some never do enjoy handling (which, as I've said in my previous posts, is why I won't purchase any chondro under a year old, and why I'll always buy in person).
  
• The severity of GTP bites is overrated.
  

Regarding the severity of the bites, there's a picture in Greg Maxwell's book that shows the size of a GTP tooth, and it is small. Unfortunately I can't share that picture here, because it's in a book. The teeth look big because they're not as well disguised as BP teeth are. More of the GTP tooth is out of the sheath. The teeth are very thin, like needles, so they don't leave a big gash or anything. Straight in and straight out. The breeder did provide these links for comparison:

GTP teeth: http://www.univet.hu/mal/2004/gal/gal1.jpg
BP teeth: http://www.d91.k12.id.us/skyline/teachers/robertsd/pythonb.htm

I don't want to turn this into a big debate over whose bite is worse. I'll concede that GTP teeth are marginally longer than ball python teeth. I'll also concede that the GTP's seem to have a greater striking range. I've been bitten by both species, however, and the damage was the same (And no, I'm not talking about my stupid feeding error BP bite, the picture of which I've shared on this forum numerous times. I'm comparing defensive strikes). Strikes from both species were equally quick. The only one of my chondros to have struck is the Biak. When she tagged me she was still on her perch, just as when she struck my daughter.

So that's it. This past weekend I shot scenes on video from a few handling sequences, and I'd like to put some voice-over work on it and publish it online as an instructional video on how to handle green tree pythons. Deb, I'll publish it on VideoJug.com using their standard format, and include a transcript...I like that feature of their site.


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[markstockham]

Very good info buck! Thanks for spending you time writing it all up!

[deborahbroadus]

YES indeed!! This is exactly what I needed. Thanks!

[PyMama]

Buck thank you so much...you have no idea, I have learned a lot..
Needless to say I need to print these and put them in a file for future read and references. Excellent info.
Loved the GT pic of the teeth too..sharp little things arent they!

Id like to see you taking it off the perch if possible...no pressure whenever you have time

Again thanks for the time...and again...I might ask more questions lol...