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ted1025
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 309
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 Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the explination, I knew the difference, just got confused when you said co-dom.
I figured you know millions times more then me so I thought maybe I read something wrong lol.
But I do have a question, I thought dominant was a visual het too??
(there is website I was looking at that said that, has a nice little graph explaining everything, I don't wanna post it without permission as it is a site of another breeder, wouldn't want to make anyone made.)
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RonCrawford
Site Admin
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 2020
Location: Pottsville, PA (USA)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ted1025 wrote: | Thanks for the explination, I knew the difference, just got confused when you said co-dom.
I figured you know millions times more then me so I thought maybe I read something wrong lol.
But I do have a question, I thought dominant was a visual het too??
(there is website I was looking at that said that, has a nice little graph explaining everything, I don't wanna post it without permission as it is a site of another breeder, wouldn't want to make anyone made.) |
(this is from NERD's site)
Codominant - a gene that causes the homozygous form to look different than the wild-type and the heterozygous form to have traits of both.
Dominant - a gene that causes an animal to look different than the wild-type and where the homozygous form and the heterozygous form look the same as each other.
With that said, no one has ever reported having a SUPER spider or SUPER pinstripe for example.
Hope this helps! 
Last edited by RonCrawford on Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Moshi
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 303
Location: Pinellas Park Fl
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Ok! You made a mistake... and us noobs noticed it. So the Spider you have is a Normal/Spider because a Spider/Spider would produce all spiders, true?
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RonCrawford
Site Admin
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 2020
Location: Pottsville, PA (USA)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Moshi wrote: | | Ok! You made a mistake... and us noobs noticed it. So the Spider you have is a Normal/Spider because a Spider/Spider would produce all spiders, true? |
I edited what you probably responded to but I'll address it here.
NERD first produced spiders and has produced a ton of them. Kevin never acknowledged having a super spider nor has anyone else. This is actually debated by many breeders, the notion of super spiders or super pinstripes. If you had an entire clutch of spiders and zero normals, you can't say that you have a super spider. You'd have to breed the male to several normal females to see if the results were the same.
If there is a super version, you won't be able to tell if it's a super or not. Has anyone produced a super dominant animal yet? If so, no one has revealed it.
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Moshi
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 303
Location: Pinellas Park Fl
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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*draws some punnet squares*
If you breed a spider and a spider statisticaly 1/4 of the babys will be homo. Isn't that right?
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RonCrawford
Site Admin
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 2020
Location: Pottsville, PA (USA)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Moshi wrote: | *draws some punnet squares*
If you breed a spider and a spider statisticaly 1/4 of the babys will be homo. Isn't that right? |
Yes.
25% SUPER SPIDER
25% Normal
50% Spiders
Although the squares show a super spider, I "personally" don't think there's such a thing. Yes, I can be wrong but I base my feelings on the many years of breedings and there isn't one breeder who can or has claimed to produce a super version of any dominant morphs.
According to the Punnett square, dominants do have a super verision but you can't tell the super version by looking at them. So yes, dominants do have a super version but I still lean against this because it hasn't been proven "yet".
I tend to go against some theories and genetics based on experiences by myself and other breeders. For example, I should have had 4.5 spiders according to the Punnet square. 
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Moshi
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 303
Location: Pinellas Park Fl
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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But that's probability there! If I roll a die 6 times I doubt I'll get one of every number! It was abnormal. It might be that no ones ever been able to find the super because it can only be found it you breed it.
If you bred a normal to a super spider you would get all spiders, yes. It might take a few times to prove... It's HIGHLY unlikely that you would get all spiders from a het twice!
It should be geneticaly possable. UNLESS there is something that causes a super spider to die or not be born or whatever...
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RonCrawford
Site Admin
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 2020
Location: Pottsville, PA (USA)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Moshi wrote: | But that's probability there! If I roll a die 6 times I doubt I'll get one of every number! It was abnormal. It might be that no ones ever been able to find the super because it can only be found it you breed it.
If you bred a normal to a super spider you would get all spiders, yes. It might take a few times to prove... It's HIGHLY unlikely that you would get all spiders from a het twice!
It should be geneticaly possable. UNLESS there is something that causes a super spider to die or not be born or whatever... |
Now can you understand why this is such a heated debate amongst breeders?
People have bred Spider x Spider and raised up the hatchlings, no doubt about it. However, not a single person on this globe has ever announced the discovery of a super dominant version in a ball python. 
Just to summarize things based on the text book explanation. Codoms are visual hets with a different looking super version. Dominants are visual hets with the same looking super version.
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RonCrawford
Site Admin
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 2020
Location: Pottsville, PA (USA)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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This is off topic but it still fits the context sorta.
What's funny about genetics is that if you breed an Albino to a Pied, they will produce double-het for Albino/Pied yet they all look normal! You would think the normal genes were removed because they're both homozygous but the animals look normal nonetheless. I tell you one thing, the more I learn about genetics the more fascinated I become. 
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ted1025
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 309
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| RonCrawford wrote: | This is off topic but it still fits the context sorta.
What's funny about genetics is that if you breed an Albino to a Pied, they will produce double-het for Albino/Pied yet they all look normal! You would think the normal genes were removed because they're both homozygous but the animals look normal nonetheless. I tell you one thing, the more I learn about genetics the more fascinated I become. |
Same here, I had no idea about ball python morphs until about a week ago and now I want to be a breeder and make some of these lol
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deborahbroadus
Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 6746
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ted1025 wrote: | | RonCrawford wrote: | This is off topic but it still fits the context sorta.
What's funny about genetics is that if you breed an Albino to a Pied, they will produce double-het for Albino/Pied yet they all look normal! You would think the normal genes were removed because they're both homozygous but the animals look normal nonetheless. I tell you one thing, the more I learn about genetics the more fascinated I become. |
Same here, I had no idea about ball python morphs until about a week ago and now I want to be a breeder and make some of these lol |
And so the fascination begins! 
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Moshi
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 303
Location: Pinellas Park Fl
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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I can explain that! het piebald & albino.
I might need to draw a picture though...
OK, try without!
They look normal because the morph gene effects a different part of the DNA! They are on different alleles! The normal that they are het for are two different normals but both part of the overall apearance of the snake. They aren't albino/piebald, they are albino/Normal & piebald/Normal. Two different genes!
I don't know if that made sence to anyone...
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deborahbroadus
Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 6746
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Moshi wrote: | I can explain that! het piebald & albino.
I might need to draw a picture though...
OK, try without!
They look normal because the morph gene effects a different part of the DNA! They are on different alleles! The normal that they are het for are two different normals but both part of the overall apearance of the snake. They aren't albino/piebald, they are albino/Normal & piebald/Normal. Two different genes!
I don't know if that made sence to anyone... |
To ME it did..((I bet you got an A in Biology, or Will get one!
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Moshi
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 303
Location: Pinellas Park Fl
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| Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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I got a A in biology AND biology2
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deborahbroadus
Moderator
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 6746
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| Moshi wrote: | | I got a A in biology AND biology2 |
I had to work..and I do mean WORK for my 'A's...I hate cutting up animals..(yes we had to do that to a piglet!) I was not a fan if Biology..althought parts of it was fascinating! 
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